Allow me to clearly illustrate the existence of controversy by way of examples. As a first example, consider the book [*Marvels & Miracles: God Wrought in the Ministry for Forty-Five Years*](https://www.amazon.com/Marvels-Miracles-Wrought-Ministry-Forty-Five/dp/1534965351/) , which includes a synopsis featuring an inspiring message for those seeking a deeper relationship with God (bolded): > Often described as the 'Grandmother of the Pentecostal Movement', Maria Woodworth Etter was a figurehead of the early Pentecostal and Charismatic Christian movement. Her ministry would touch hundreds of thousands and eventually through the power of her books, millions. Thousands more would attend her Holy Spirit-filled meetings, bringing the sick, the lame, the possessed and the lost. In those meetings the Holy Spirit would visit in such a powerful way that men and women would "lay like dead" while other would start trembling or speaking in tongues. Marvels and Miracles is Maria's accounts of the marvels and miracles that took place during her ministry. It speaks of her calling, her initial lack of self-belief in being able to follow that calling and the signs and wonders that followed once she had accepted it. **For anyone seeking a deeper relationship with God or for those who are yearning to read about what he is able to do through those who pick up the mantle of faith, Marvels and Miracles promises to show you**. As a second example, consider Jack S. Deere's teachings in his book [*Why I Am Still Surprised by the Voice of God: How God Speaks Today through Prophecies, Dreams, and Visions*](https://www.amazon.com/Surprised-Voice-God-Through-Prophecies-dp-0310108152/dp/0310108152/ref=dp_ob_title_bk) : > Not only does God still speak to us apart from the Scriptures—**we should expect Him to**. > > This is the story of how Jack Deere learned to hear the voice of God in his life **and how you can too**. It’s clear that the ideas promoted by these books would raise some eyebrows among critics like [Jordan Standridge](https://www.gracechurch.org/standridge) from Grace Community Church, who expressed his views at the Cripplegate, where he [wrote](https://thecripplegate.com/three-reasons-god-is-a-cessationist/) : > ### Three Reasons God is a Cessationist > > [...] > > God is not the author of chaos. And that’s the only way to describe what happened in 1914 at the Azusa street revival. For more than 1800 years of church history, God had stopped giving men sign gifts until supposedly He let man out of his box again. This produced speaking in unintelligible languages. It produced unconfirmed and unprovable healings, and, ultimately, turned prophecy into unreliable and fallible statements. It produced women preaching, and all kinds of ecclesiological problems. > > And as we look around today, so many questions arise. As we hear of all the miraculous gifts that are being claimed all over the world, we have to ask ourselves a simple question. Has God taken man out of his “can’t do miracles box” after 1800 years of church history and given them back the abilities that a few people at the beginning of the church age had? If he has, why has he entrusted these TBN money-hungry charlatans with these abilities? However, [J. P. Moreland](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._P._Moreland)—an American philosopher, theologian, Christian apologist, and distinguished Professor of Philosophy at Talbot School of Theology at Biola University—would counter with his latest book, [*A Simple Guide to Experience Miracles: Instruction and Inspiration for Living Supernaturally in Christ*](https://www.amazon.com/Simple-Guide-Experience-Miracles-Supernaturally/dp/0310124190) , whose synopsis states: > Does God Still Do Miracles Today? *A Simple Guide to Experience Miracles* will give you confidence in and awareness of the supernatural realm as you learn how to flourish spiritually by experiencing more miraculous interventions in your life and ministry. Internationally renowned philosopher J. P. Moreland looks at the nature of miracles and explains **why bearing and receiving credible testimony to God's miraculous acts is a crucial feature of a mature Jesus-follower**. He also shows how to distinguish a real miracle from a mere coincidence. **Miracles bring comfort to believers, strengthening faith in God and creating boldness in our lives**. In other words, for J. P. Moreland, diving deep into one's relationship with God and maturing as a follower of Jesus means embracing the miraculous aspects of Christian living. However, let’s set aside the controversy surrounding the miraculous for now and let's focus instead on seeking God’s face—a central theme throughout the Bible. GotQuestions explores this in their article titled [*What does it mean to seek God’s face?*](https://www.gotquestions.org/seek-Gods-face.html) , which explains: > The true nature of worship is to seek God’s face. The Christian walk is a life devoted to seeking God’s presence and favor. The Lord wants us to humbly and trustingly seek His face in our prayers and in our times in His Word. It requires intimacy to look intently into someone’s face. **Pursuing God’s face is equivalent to developing an intimate relationship with Him**: “O God, you are my God; I earnestly search for you. My soul thirsts for you; my whole body longs for you in this parched and weary land where there is no water. I have seen you in your sanctuary and gazed upon your power and glory. Your unfailing love is better than life itself; how I praise you!” (Psalm 63:1–3, NLT). > > [...] > > Seeking God’s face means desiring to know His character and wanting Him—**His presence**—more than any other thing He can give us. According to GotQuestions, *seeking God’s face* involves developing an *intimate relationship with God* and pursuing *His presence*. Essentially, one mystery is explained with two mysteries. If we concentrate purely on the aspect of pursuing *God's presence*, one might consider the approach of [Brother Lawrence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brother_Lawrence) , a 17th-century Carmelite friar, who authored the well-known classic of Christian mysticism, [*The Practice of the Presence of God*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Practice_of_the_Presence_of_God) : > The text attempts to explain Lawrence's method of acquiring the presence of God. A summary of his approach can be gleaned from the following passages. "That he had always been governed by love, without selfish views; and that having resolved to make the love of GOD the end of all his actions, he had found reasons to be well satisfied with his method. That he was pleased when he could take up a straw from the ground for the love of GOD, seeking Him only, and nothing else, not even His gifts." "That in order to form a habit of conversing with GOD continually, and referring all we do to Him; we must at first apply to Him with some diligence: but that after a little care we should find His love inwardly excite us to it without any difficulty." Lawrence pleads that all work is valuable to God and one need not accomplish great things to please Him. The labourer is as valuable to God as the priest. (Note: a comprehensive list of 17th-century Christian mystics is available [here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:17th-century_Christian_mystics).) Yet again, someone like John MacArthur, in his sermon [*The Promise of the Holy Spirit, Part 2*](https://www.gty.org/library/sermons-library/43-75/the-promise-of-the-holy-spirit-part-2) , would offer a contrasting viewpoint: > It was a number of years ago now – it’s probably been 20 years or so ago – when I was surprised to see a wave coming into the church under the title *Experiencing* God, *Experiencing* God. If you go to any Christian bookstore over the last 20 years or more, you’re going to find books on experiencing God. There were a couple of Southern Baptist pastors who developed, not only the books, the perspective, but then began to develop curriculum, and more curriculum, and more books; and this literally became an all-encompassing, all-engulfing movement in the evangelical church experiencing God. > > [...] > > **Christian mysticism, through the Middle Ages, and even until now, has always sought to find God in some experience, some feeling, some emotion; some means by which the senses imminence is present. This has become a popular notion in evangelical churches that there are ways in which you can feel God, in which you can sense God’s presence**. > > Perhaps the most popular one is music. If you get the right music, if the music is sort of musically seductive enough and emotionally energized enough, people will say, “I just feel the presence of God. Don’t you feel the presence of God?” > > **Well, of course, that is absolute nonsense. You can’t feel the presence of God. You don’t have any mechanism to feel the presence of God. I’ve never felt the presence of God; I don’t even know what that means.** But I do know this: He’s here. And more than that, He not only inhabits the praise of His people; is joined to His people in union all the time so that the church itself literally is in constant communion with God collectively; it’s not only true that where two or three are gathered together, He is in the midst. But, this is true. --- Why is there such a controversy among Christians over defining core and fundamental aspects of Christian living, **particularly in regard to understanding the nature of a relationship with God and what it entails**, including what Christians can yearn for, aspire to, and expect from such a relationship?

To clarify what I mean by *private revelations*, I'm referring to revelations by God through extra-biblical means, such as prophecies, dreams, and visions. Is the Westminster Confession's doctrine of *Sola Scriptura* incompatible with a continuationist view on private revelations? Some appear to think that the two are incompatible. For example, [Mike Riccardi writing at The Cripple Gate](https://thecripplegate.com/strange-fire-the-puritan-commitment-to-sola-scriptura-steve-lawson/) affirms: > Think of a magnificent, ancient temple and a foundation upon which everything rests. That’s *sola Scriptura*. Everything that we believe, obey, embrace, and hold dear in the convictions of our soul is based upon this foundation of *sola Scriptura*. Rome said, “We accept Scripture, but it is Scripture *and*. Scripture *and* church tradition; Scripture *and* ecclesiastical hierarchies; Scripture *and* the church councils; Scripture *and* papal authority. And the Reformers said, coming back to the Bible, “No, it is *sola Scriptura*: Scripture alone.” And if anything else is added to the foundation of the church, there will be cracks in the foundation and it will not hold up the teaching and the preaching of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. **At the same time, they said no to the Anabaptists and the libertines who wanted to add their dreams and visions and new revelations. They said no; it is Scripture *alone***. > > ... > > And what I want you to note is in [WCF] chapter 1 section 1, **they begin with a statement on the cessation of any new revelation. They were determined to state that they will believe only the Bible**. So please note, in the first section of chapter 1, they saw it necessary for the preserving and propagating of truth that would make the Holy Scripture to be most necessary. In other words, it has to be written down, so the message would be preserved and propagated far and wide with a uniformity of statement. > > **“Those former ways of God’s revealing His will unto His people being *now ceased*.”** This is front-loaded at the very outset. No wiggle room. These Puritan divines who gathered perhaps the greatest generation of believers in the UK, began with this cessationist statement. > > ... > > In the sixth section [WCF 1.6], we read of its sufficiency. **“The whole counsel of God concerning all things necessary for His own glory, man’s salvation, faith, and life is in Scripture.” No need to look anywhere else. No need to have anything else added. No appendices needed**. They affirm the Scriptures that I have already read to you, that all things necessary for salvation and sanctification, for the glory of God is found in our Bible. In this sixth section also is another cessationist statement: **“Nothing at any time is to be added, whether by new revelations of the Spirit or traditions of men.”** Do not be bringing your “Thus says the Lord” into this house if it’s not found in chapter and verse. > > ... > > Number 10 [WCF 1.10] is a final summation of the authority of the Scripture. “The supreme judge by which all controversies are to be determined and…examined…can be no other but the Holy Spirit speaking in the Scripture.” **Not speaking in your revelations, in your dreams and visions, in your tongues. Speaking in the Scripture *alone*.** And the Word of God will be the highest arbitrator in all matters in the life of the church. > > ... > > ### Sola Scriptura: Deluded by the Quakers > > Whenever God opens the windows of heaven to bless his people, the devil opens the gates of hell to blast. While the Puritans were meeting in Westminster in the 1640s, at exactly that same time virtually across town, the devil was doing his work. There arose a fringe group that would come to be known as the Quakers, also known as the Religious Society of Friends. **They claimed to be receiving new revelations, prophecies. And with that they were being led astray into hyper-emotionalism and mysticism**. > > ... > > And out of this commitment to be “open and uncautious” to **continuing revelation by the Spirit, they were led into all kinds of mystical experiences and bizarre patterns**, not the least of which was going naked as a sign. > > He was the person al chaplain to Oliver Cromwell. John Owen Addressed Parliament. This brilliant man gave himself to **combat this Charismatic emotional departure from *sola Scriptura* with its new revelations**. And Owen affirmed the deeper issue, which was *sola Scriptura*. --- I got the inspiration to ask this question from: https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/101344/61679 https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/101366/61679

|Passage (KJV) | Content | | - | - | | Matthew 7:21-23 | 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. | | Matthew 24:24 | 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. | | Mark 13:22 | 22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect. | |2 Thessalonians 2:8-12 | 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. | | Revelation 13:13-14 | 13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, 14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. | | Revelation 16:14 | 14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. | | Revelation 19:20 | 20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. | I've encountered Christians who highlight passages like Matthew 7:21-23, 24:24, Mark 13:22, 2 Thessalonians 2:8-12, Revelation 13:13-14, 16:14, 19:20, which describe the end times as witnessing an increase in miracles. However, they note that these miracles are attributed to Satan rather than God, Christ, or the Holy Spirit. They stress that this phenomenon is accompanied by the dissemination of false doctrine. Do these passages imply that all miracles during the end times will be of Satan? How do Christians who believe in present-day miracles performed by God reconcile this belief with the aforementioned passages? --- **On the relevance of the question** I believe this question is very relevant, given the fact that many Christians believe in present-day miracles that are (purportedly) performed by God, and so it would be terrible news for them to come to realize that all those miracles are in fact deceptive tricks of Satan. Hopefully this is not the case. Notable advocates of contemporary miracles by God include: - Adam Blai, author of [The Catholic Guide to Miracles: Separating the Authentic from the Counterfeit](https://www.amazon.com/Catholic-Guide-Miracles-Adam-Blai-ebook/dp/B095F243JF/) . - Craig S. Keener, author of [Miracles Today: The Supernatural Work of God in the Modern World](https://www.amazon.com/Miracles-Today-Supernatural-Modern-World-ebook/dp/B08MXZVXLW/) and [Miracles: The Credibility of the New Testament Accounts](https://www.amazon.com/Miracles-Credibility-New-Testament-Accounts/dp/0801039525) . - J. P. Moreland, author of [A Simple Guide to Experience Miracles: Instruction and Inspiration for Living Supernaturally in Christ](https://www.amazon.com/Simple-Guide-Experience-Miracles-Supernaturally/dp/0310124190) . - Lee Strobel, author of [The Case for Miracles: A Journalist Investigates Evidence for the Supernatural](https://www.amazon.com/Case-Miracles-Journalist-Investigates-Supernatural/dp/0310259185) . - R. Douglas Geivett & Gary R. Habermas, authors of [In Defense of Miracles: A Comprehensive Case for God's Action in History](https://www.amazon.com/Defense-Miracles-Comprehensive-Action-History/dp/0830815287/) . - Sam Storms, author of [Practicing the Power: Welcoming the Gifts of the Holy Spirit in Your Life](https://www.amazon.com/Practicing-Power-Welcoming-Gifts-Spirit-ebook/dp/B01HAKH4UQ/)

The following are examples of (possible) essential features and functions of an Apostle I've heard from different sources. An authentic Apostle ... 1. Had to be called supernaturally by God Himself in an unmistakable way (canonical example: Paul in Acts 9). 2. Had to have eyewitnessed Jesus Christ in physical form after His resurrection (aka a *Christophany*). 3. Must have a ministry accompanied by signs, wonders and mighty deeds. 4. Must be a church planter (see [Church planting](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_planting)) . 5. Must be an effective preacher of the gospel and soul winner in unreached areas. 6. Must have a position of leadership in the church. 7. Must be author of (or should be able to produce at least) inspired and canonizable writings (i.e. we should be able append their writings to the Bible). **Note**: These are just examples off the top of my head, feel free to consider other requirements people have historically proposed if I forgot any. **Questions**: - What is an overview of how different Christian denominations define the essential features and functions of an authentic Apostle? - Would these different definitions of Apostle allow for the existence of authentic Apostles in modern times? ____ Related and thought-provoking question (and answers): https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/90502/50422

Book of Acts (ESV): - **Then the Spirit said to Philip**, “Go up and join this chariot.” Acts 8:29 - And when they came up out of the water, **the Spirit of the Lord carried Philip away**, and the eunuch saw him no more, and went on his way rejoicing. Acts 8:39 - **While Peter was reflecting on the vision, the Spirit said to him**, “Behold, three men are looking for you. But get up, go downstairs and accompany them without misgivings, for I have sent them Myself.” Acts 10:19-20 - **The Spirit told me** to go with them without misgivings. These six brethren also went with me and we entered the man’s house. Acts 11:12 - While they were ministering to the Lord and fasting, **the Holy Spirit said**, “Set apart for Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” Acts 13:2 - **For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us** to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements: Acts 15:28 - 6 And they went through the region of Phrygia and Galatia, **having been forbidden by the Holy Spirit** to speak the word in Asia. 7 And when they had come up to Mysia, they attempted to go into Bithynia, **but the Spirit of Jesus did not allow them**. 8 So, passing by Mysia, they went down to Troas. 9 **And a vision appeared to Paul in the night**: a man of Macedonia was standing there, urging him and saying, “Come over to Macedonia and help us.” 10 **And when Paul had seen the vision**, immediately we sought to go on into Macedonia, concluding that **God had called us** to preach the gospel to them. Acts 16:6-10 - 9 He had four unmarried daughters, who prophesied. 10 While we were staying for many days, a prophet named Agabus came down from Judea. 11 And coming to us, he took Paul's belt and bound his own feet and hands and said, “**Thus says the Holy Spirit**, ‘This is how the Jews at Jerusalem will bind the man who owns this belt and deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.’” Acts 21:9-11 Other books (ESV): - **Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness** to be tempted by the devil. Matthew 4:1 - **And Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit**, returned from the Jordan and **was led by the Spirit in the wilderness** 2 for forty days, being tempted by the devil. And he ate nothing during those days. And when they were ended, he was hungry. Luke 4:1-2 - 14 **And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit** to Galilee, and a report about him went out through all the surrounding country. 15 And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified by all. Luke 4:14-15 - **For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God**. Romans 8:14 - **My sheep hear my voice**, and I know them, **and they follow me**. John 10:27 Question: - What denominations believe that a **Book of Acts** style of interaction with the Holy Spirit is still possible today?

The GotQuestions.org article [Are there prophets in the church today?](https://www.gotquestions.org/prophets-today.html) asks the following rhetorical question (in bold): > Are there true prophets today? **If the purpose of a prophet was to reveal truth from God, why would we need prophets if we have the completed revelation from God in the Bible?** If prophets were the “foundation” of the early church, are we still building the “foundation” today? Can God give someone a message to deliver to someone else? Absolutely! Does God reveal truth to someone in a supernatural way and enable that person to deliver that message to others? Absolutely! But is this the biblical gift of prophecy? No. Notice that the question relies on the premise that "we have the completed revelation from God in the Bible". **Question** What is the basis for the claim that "we have the completed revelation from God in the Bible"? **Note**: I'm not asking for the basis for the belief in a closed canon. Although that topic is related, notice that it is possible to believe in both a closed canon and the continuation of non-canonical (divine) revelations. ___ **Related questions** - https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/85908/50422 - https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/90560/50422 - https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/90502/50422 ___ #### Appendix - Clarifying terminology **Closed canon** Ironically, I find the following quote from this [GotQuestions.org article](https://www.gotquestions.org/closed-canon.html) quite handy: > The canon of Scripture refers to all the books in the Christian Bible and Hebrew Scriptures that together constitute the complete and divinely inspired Word of God. Only the books of the canon are considered authoritative in matters of faith and practice. **The idea of a closed canon is that the Bible is complete; no more books are being added to it**. God is not appending His Word. Emphasis mine. In other words, a closed canon, to my understanding, means that God has no further plans to providentially intervene in human history to add new chapters or books to the Bible. That's it. It doesn't mean that God cannot reveal new things outside of the Bible, although those new revelations will not be appended to the Bible (to remain consistent with the premise of a closed canon). For example, someone might be taken up to the third heaven and receive revelations from God that no-one else knows, and yet the canon would still remain closed because those revelations would not be appended to the canon. There is no contradiction. **Non-canonical revelations** By non-canonical (divine) revelations I mean revelations from God that are not officially recorded in the Biblical canon. I recommend reading [this answer](https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/a/54304/38524) to the question [What was the purpose of the Old Testament prophecies whose contents were not recorded for posterity?](https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/q/54296/38524) to better understand this point. UPDATE: I also recommend reading [this answer](https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/a/76560/38524) to the question [Is there a contradiction between Hebrews 1:1-3 and Acts 21:8-11?](https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/q/76551/38524)

The Greek word *semeion* is the word most commonly translated 'sign' or 'miracle' in the English bible. It is the word which is very prominent in John's gospel account, in which it occurs a significant seventeen times. (There is another word, sometimes so translated, being *dunamis*, which has a broad spectrum of meaning, and is often translated 'power'. But it does not bear the *specific* concept associated with *semeion*.) In John's visionary account, the Apocalypse, the very purpose of which is to show unto Christ's servants 'things which must shortly come to pass', we find that John uses *semeion* only seven times (again a significant number) in a very illuminating pattern. - 'Wonders', Revelation 13:13, are done by the second, earth beast, which 'miracles', Revelation 13:14, are those that *deceive* them that dwell on earth. And this *false prophet* which wrought 'miracles' is cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone, Revelation 19:20. - Then three unclean spirits, like frogs, which are the *spirits of demons* work 'miracles' to gather the kings of the earth, and the whole world with them to the battle of the great day of God Almighty, Revelation 16:14. In contrast, there are three mentions of *semeion* which are, exclusively, occurrences not on earth, but in heaven. - A great 'wonder' in heaven, a woman, clothed with the sun, who brings forth the *huios arrhen*, the son/batchelor, both a son and a prospective husband/Head, Revelation 12:1. - The response to this is another 'wonder' - a great red dragon, Revelation 12:3. - And, lastly, another 'sign' in heaven : seven angels with seven last plagues, Revelation 15:1. Notably absent are any 'miracles' done by men on earth which do any good. Which bring any benefit. Which, in any way, are a testimony to Jesus Christ. Not a single one. But rather, during the Church age, during the motivation of earthly and spiritual powers to conquer the whole of earth, during the buildup of the final Armageddon, throughout all this revealed activity : all the 'miracles' done on earth are *deceptive, demonic in origin and lead to a lake of fire.* What do continuationists have to say to this remarkable feature of the Apocalypse ? --------------------------------------- EDIT after Comment (in relation to the two witnesses in Revelation 11: 3-14) : >Have we seen such things, visibly and practically ? No, we have not. Therefore it is symbolic. Is not the preaching of the gospel an occasion when 'fire pours from the mouth' ? When one prays for heaven to respond to atrocities on earth and there is a response of judgment : is not this 'striking the earth with plague' ? And that they are slain and arise again : is not this God raising up a prophetic ministry, generation by generation, a unified testimony. **All symbolic**. -------------------------------- All references are to the KJV. My research used Robert Young's *Analytical Concordance*.

[Pascal's Wager](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_wager) frames the discussion in terms of the possible benefits and costs of betting that God does or does not exist. In this sense, if one bets that God exists and He actually does, the reward for the wagerer would begin either immediately upon death or on judgement day with the resurrection of the dead (depending on which afterlife theology turns out to be true). In any case, notice that there is no explicit expectancy of extraordinary rewards in *this life* (before death), at least not in the standard formulation of the wager. But what if we make the wager a bit stronger and specific? What if instead of wagering that Christianity is true (in a general sense), we wager that [continuationism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cessationism_versus_continuationism) specifically is true? I posit that this is a stronger version of the wager because it would require not only committing oneself to the belief that Christianity is true, **but also that a continuationist version of Christianity is true**. I foresee three possible outcomes for this wager: 1. *If continuationism is true and the wager works*, then one would get to experience a continuationist version of Christianity *in this life* (no need to wait until death in order to confirm whether Christianity was actually true or not). 2. *If continuationism is true and the wager doesn't work*, this would indicate that the wager was not performed correctly (depending on the actual details of the specific version of continuationism that is true). 3. *If continuationism is false*, then the wager should not work (unless some kind of demonic counterfeit version of continuationism is experienced, but at least this would confirm that the supernatural is true). Additionally, there is always the option of falling back on a traditional version of Pascal's wager and settling for a cessationist version of Christianity (if the wagerer is willing to do so, of course). Has anyone come up with this modified version of Pascal's wager (or anything similar) already? Is there a name for it in the Christian literature? ____ **Note**: In order to avoid semantic misunderstandings (my apologies for being unclear), when I claim that I'm proposing a *stronger* version of Pascal's wager, by *stronger* I meant to say that my modified version demands a *stronger epistemic commitment* from the wagerer, because the wagerer not only has to commit themselves to believe that the Christian God exists, but also that the Christian God *continues* to operate and manifest in ways documented in the Book of Acts (aka *continuationism*). It's a more risky gamble (the odds of being right diminish as we add more constraints), but the rewards in *this life* could be greater if *continuationism* turns out to be true and the wager to work.

Here is a summarized version of the 7 arguments for Cessationism by Tom Pennington reiterated at the Strange Fire conference ([source](https://www.challies.com/liveblogging/strange-fire-conference-a-case-for-cessationism/)) : 1. ***The unique role of miracles*** - For authentication of the messenger(s). God worked miracles through unique men - Moses; Elijah and Elisha; Christ and his apostles. 2. ***The end of the gift of apostleship*** - Apostleship was a church office gift (1 Cor 12:28; Eph 4) that ceased with the death of the Apostles. 3. ***The foundational nature of the New Testament apostles and prophets*** - Apostles and prophets laid the foundation of the Christ' Church (Eph 2:20-22). 4. ***The nature of the New Testament miraculous gifts*** - Alleged "miracles" reported after the Apostles are not of the same type, e.g., disparity between modern day healings and NT healings; "Tongues" gibberish vs. known languages, etc. 5. ***The testimony of church history*** - The practice of apostolic gifts declined even during the lifetimes of the apostles. Even in the written books of the New Testament, the miraculous gifts are mentioned less as the date of their writing gets later. 6. ***The sufficiency of Scripture*** - The Spirit speaks only in and through the inspired Word. 7. ***The New Testament governed the miraculous gifts*** - Whenever the New Testament gifts of tongues was to be practiced, there were specific rules that were to be followed. These rules are not followed by charismatics today. See the linked article above for the full exposition of the arguments. How do Continuationists rebut them? ___ Related: - https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/90502/50422 - https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/63274/50422 - https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/92205/50422

In a related question , it is stated that the practice of apostolic gifts declined during the lifetimes of the apostles. For example, Norman Geisler in his book *Signs & Wonders* writes (p. 137): > ...the same apostle who could heal everyone on a whole island (Acts > 28:9) could no longer heal his coworkers in the ministry. The apostles > could heal a person born lame (Acts 3), but Paul could not give > Timothy miraculous relief from a simple stomach ailment and had to > recommend that he take medicine for it (1 Timothy 5:23)...the same > apostle who once had the power to raise the dead (Acts 20) now cannot > even raise his needed friend Trophimus from a sick bed (2 Timothy > 4:20) Does this indicate that there was a decline in the number of miracles in the first century? If so, how would continuationists respond to such an observation? Or, is this a case of the absence of evidence not being the same as the evidence of absence?

An example of a report of charismatic gifts *before* 400 AD is the testimony of St. Macarius of Egypt ([source](https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/89715/50422)) . An example of a report of charismatic gifts *after* 1700 AD is the testimony of John Wesley ([source 1](https://firebrandmag.com/articles/wesley-the-almost-charismatic) , [source 2](https://www.amazon.com/Holy-Spirit-Power-Pure-Classic/dp/088270947X) , [source 3](https://newfangled.wordpress.com/2010/05/12/john-wesley-and-the-power-of-the-spirit/)) . What about the period in between (400 AD - 1700 AD)? Are there any notable reports of charismatic gifts in operation from this period of church history? ____ **Related questions** - https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/86796/50422 - https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/63274/50422 - https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/59538/50422

I'm aware of the existence of both [cessationism and continuationism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cessationism_versus_continuationism) as extreme positions regarding the gifts of the Spirit. One affirms that all the gifts of the Spirit have ceased, whereas the other argues that all of them are still in effect. However, I was wondering if there are any Christians situated somewhere between these two extremes? Do "partial cessationists" exist? Are there notable examples? If so, what is the biblical basis for their "partial cessationism"?

According to [Monergism.com](https://www.monergism.com/topics/spiritual-gifts/cessationists-view) : > In Christian theology, cessationism is the view that the charismatic gifts of the Holy Spirit, such as tongues, prophecy and healing, ceased being practiced early on in Church history. Cessationists usually believe the miraculous gifts were given only for the foundation of the Church, during the time between the coming of the Holy Spirit on Pentecost, c. AD 33 (see Acts 2) and the fulfillment of God's purposes in history, usually identified as either the completion of the last book of the New Testament or the death of the last Apostle. Cessationists are divided into four main groups: > > - **Concentric Cessationists** believe that the miraculous gifts have indeed ceased in the mainstream church and evangelized areas, but appear in unreached areas as an aid to spreading the Gospel (Luther and Calvin, though they were somewhat inconsistent in this position). > - **Classical cessationists** assert that the "sign gifts" such as prophecy, healing and speaking in tongues ceased with the apostles and the finishing of the canon of Scripture. They only served as launching pads for the spreading of the Gospel; as affirmations of God's revelation. However, these cessationists do believe that God still occasionally does miracles today, such as healings or divine guidance, so long as these "miracles" do not accredit new doctrine or add to the New Testament canon. Richard Gaffin, John F. MacArthur and Daniel B. Wallace are perhaps the best-known classical cessationists. > - **Full Cessationists** argue that along with no miraculous gifts, there are also no miracles performed by God today. This argument, of course, turns on one's understanding of the term, "miracle." B. B. Warfield, J. Gresham Machen, F.N. Lee. > - **Consistent Cessationists** believe that not only were the miraculous gifts only for the establishment of the first-century church, but the so-called fivefold ministry found in Eph. 4 was also a transitional institution (i.e., There are no more apostles or prophets, but also no more pastors, teachers, or evangelists). For more information, click on Wikipedia. According to [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cessationism_versus_continuationism#Types_of_cessationism) : > - **Full cessationists** believe that all miracles have ceased, along with any miraculous gifts. > - **Classical cessationists** assert that the miraculous gifts such as prophecy, healing, and speaking in tongues ceased with the apostles. > However, they do believe that God occasionally works in supernatural > ways today. > - **Consistent cessationists** believe that not only were the miraculous gifts only for the establishment of the first-century > church, but the need for apostles and prophets also ceased. > - **Concentric cessationists** believe that the miraculous gifts have indeed ceased in the mainstream church and evangelized areas, but may > appear in unreached areas as an aid to spreading the Gospel. Daniel B. > Wallace describes himself as a concentric cessationist and describes > the other cessationist viewpoints as "linear". **Question** How do continuationists view each different type of cessationism? For example, I personally believe that concentric cessationism seems to be very close to continuationism, depending on how "unreached area" is defined ([interesting related answer](https://christianity.stackexchange.com/a/90312/50422)) . What would a concentric cessationist be missing out on by not fully embracing a continuationist worldview, according to continuationists? Same question for the other three types of cessationism.

### Who is Justin Peters From https://justinpeters.org/ : > Justin Peters Ministries is a worldwide expository preaching and teaching ministry. We focus on teaching the sufficiency of God's word and exposing the false teachings of the prosperity, health and wealth gospel. Justin preaches a gospel deeply rooted in the sufficiency of scripture. > Justin Peters is an evangelist committed not only to the inerrancy of God’s Word but also its sufficiency. The ministry exists to evangelize the lost and equip believers with the tools needed to deepen their understanding of scripture and their love for Christ. In all things Soli Deo Gloria (Romans 11:36). About [Justin Peters' YouTube channel](https://www.youtube.com/c/justpreach/about) (155K subscribers): > My YouTube channel exists to glorify God through the teaching and preaching of His word. When our knowledge of God is deepened, our love for God is deepened (Philippians 1:9). It is my desire to both "teach sound doctrine and refute those who contradict" per Titus 1:9. Though none of us does it perfectly, I strive to speak the truth and to speak it in love (Ephesians 4:15). ### The Challenge On April 20, 2022, Justin Peters Ministries uploaded a video titled *My Open Challenge To the Charismatic Prophets: Here's Your Big Chance To Prove Me Wrong!* ([link](https://youtu.be/kGxCoLUC6kI)) . This [website](https://protestia.com/2022/04/21/justin-peters-issues-open-challenge-to-charismatic-prophets-heres-your-chance-to-embarrass-me/) quotes Justin Peters' challenge in written form: >> “**I want to give you a chance, not only to redeem yourself, but also to embarrass me**. All of you know I’ve been, I’ve been pretty hard on you, rightly so I think, pointing out…your complete and total prophetic faceplant over the last two years, like over and over and over and over and over and over. >> >> So, here’s your chance to redeem yourself and to prove me wrong. Embarrass me. Okay? **Embarrass this old fuddy-duddy of a cessasionist**. All right, here’s my challenge. The war is raging in Ukraine. I want any one of you between now -I’m recording this on the evening of April the 20th 2022-… and May 1, that gives you about 10 days. That’s plenty of time to either shoot up to heaven, or just start engaging God in a conversation I want you to ask him, **“how’s the war in Ukraine going to end?”** >> >> I want you sometime between now and May 1 put up a video timestamp so it can be verified and all that good stuff. I want to see it. You tag me on it. Hey, if you take me up on this challenge, word will get around and I’ll know about it, believe me, I’ll know about it. >> >> **So you put up your video and you tell me, you tell all of us, when is the war going to end and how is it going to end?** Who’s going to win this war? Is it going to be Russia or is it going to be Ukraine? Or is there going to be some kind of a settled peace maybe where Russia gets the Donbas region and Ukraine maintains its sovereignty? How’s this thing going to end? Okay, be specific. How is it going to end and when is it going to end?” > > Peters then goes on to offer them generous terms. They don’t even have > to give him a specific date, but can give him a two-week timeframe “ie > second half of October, the first half of August.” > > Calling out several prophets by name, from Kris Vallaton to Troy Black > to Kat Kerr, he notes that they claim to be in constant regular, > face-to-face contact with God and many like Kerr claim to be > constantly visiting heaven to get their daily download. Kerr claimed > just the other day that God has told her what color of outfits she > needs to start wearing, and some have even said that God tells them > what kind of toothpaste to use, so even one of them must have some > insight into this major global event, right? Surely one of them might > have heard something about it in their daily discourses with the Lord, > right? Right? > > The gauntlet has been thrown down, with Petes the Elijah figure to > these 450 prophets of Baal. > > Let’s see what they come up with. ### Question How do continuationist Christians who believe in the modern continuation of the gift of prophecy and that God continues to call prophets respond to Justin Peters' challenge and overall skepticism toward modern prophets? _____ ### Appendix - Screenshot ([source](https://protestia.com/2022/04/21/justin-peters-issues-open-challenge-to-charismatic-prophets-heres-your-chance-to-embarrass-me/))

Do "continuationists" (who believe that the signs and wonders of Acts 2 never ceased) explain the apparent 1900 year hiatus as divine sovereignty dispensing early rain then and latter rain now or as 1900 years of a lack of faith and/or understanding?

As far as I'm aware, most Christians have never personally experienced anything "overtly miraculous", that is, no words of knowledge, no prophecy, no miraculous healings, no dreams, no visions, no audible voice from God, no angelic encounters, no demonic encounters, no tongues ([xenoglossy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenoglossy)) , no Christophanies, etc. If [continuationism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cessationism_versus_continuationism) is true, then how do continuationists explain the absence of "overtly miraculous" experiences by the vast majority of Christians? If continuationism is true, then why do most Christians never get to experience this continuation? ___ **Related** - https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/90141/50422 - https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/90292/50422 - https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/86098/50422

> "Therefore you do not lack any spiritual gift as you eagerly await the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ"- 1 Corinthians 1:7 I'm neutral in the cessationism vs continuationism debate but the above verse does seem to imply that spiritual gifts would continue until Jesus comes back.

The idea of a 5-fold ministry originally comes from Ephesians 4:11-13: > 11 And he gave **the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers**, 12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ [ESV] There are Christians who believe in a present-day continuation/restoration of these 5 offices. One notable example, in my opinion, is the Five-Fold Church [5F Church] ([website](https://5fchurch.org/) , [YouTube channel](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYHO1g5-Hz4TBelH_L7xpjg)) , based in Los Angeles, California, whose lead pastor, Kathryn Krick, claims to have been called by God to be an apostle, as her personal YouTube channel [Apostle Kathryn Krick](https://www.youtube.com/c/ApostleKathrynKrick) makes patently clear. However, a passage that is commonly cited to argue for the cessation of the offices of Apostle and Prophet is Ephesians 2:19-22, particularly verse 20: > 19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 **built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets**, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. 22 In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit. [ESV] The Got Questions' article [*What is the five (5) fold ministry?*](https://www.gotquestions.org/five-fold-ministry.html) presents this argument: > The concept of the five-fold ministry comes from Ephesians 4:11, "It was he who gave some to be (1) apostles, some to be (2) prophets, some to be (3) evangelists, and some to be (4) pastors and (5) teachers." Primarily as a result of this verse, some believe God has restored, or is restoring, the offices of apostle and prophet in the church today. Ephesians 4:12-13 tells us that the purpose of the five-fold ministry is, "to prepare God’s people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ." So, since the body of Christ definitely is not built up to unity in the faith and has not attained to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ, the thinking goes, the offices of apostle and prophet must still be in effect. > > **However, Ephesians 2:20 informs us that the church is "built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus Himself as the chief cornerstone." If the apostles and prophets were the foundation of the church, are we still building the foundation?** Although Jesus Christ is most definitely active in the church today, His role as the cornerstone of the church was completed with His death, burial, resurrection, and ascension. **If the work of the cornerstone is, in that sense, complete, so must the work of the apostles and prophets, who were the foundation, be complete**. > >What was the role of the apostles and prophets? It was to proclaim God’s revelation, to teach the new truth the church would need to grow and thrive. The apostles and prophets completed this mission. How? By giving us the Word of God. The Word of God is the completed revelation of God. The Bible contains everything the church needs to know to grow, thrive, and fulfill God’s mission (2 Timothy 3:15-16). The cornerstone work of the apostles and prophets is complete. The ongoing work of the apostles and prophets is manifested in the Holy Spirit speaking through and teaching us God’s Word. In that sense, the five-fold ministry is still active. **Question:** How do Christians who believe in current-day Apostles, Prophets and the 5-fold ministry interpret Ephesians 2:20 in a way that is consistent with their views? ____ Somewhat related: - https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/85908/50422 - https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/86076/50422

If person X is called by God to be an apostle, what should person X do next in order to convince others that their calling is genuine? What kind of evidence should person X provide to an audience of fellow Christians with a healthy dose of skepticism so that they may be fully assured that person X's calling to apostleship is from God and authentic? Worded in another way: if someone comes to me and tells me that they were called by God to be an apostle, what kind of evidence should I demand or look for to either verify or reject their claim? Since this is probably a controversial question, I would like to narrow the scope to Christians who are open to this possibility in the first place, that is, Christians who adhere to [Continuationism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cessationism_versus_continuationism) .

Are there any well-known Christian scientists who believe that miracles still happen today? Of course a Christian scientist, by definition, must believe in at least one miracle -- the resurrection of Jesus -- which in and of itself already sets a huge difference with respect to the vast majority of other scientists who are skeptical of everything that has to do with the supernatural/miraculous or that cannot be verified through the scientific method. But what about modern miracles? Are there any Christian scientists who also believe in contemporary occurrences of miracles? If so, how can a scientist reconcile the belief in modern miracles with the skepticism of the scientific method? Can science confirm a miracle?