I'm currently reading Eusebius' History of the church and stumbled upon this passage: > These earnest disciples of great men built on the foundation of the > churches everywhere laid by the apostles, spreading the message still > further and sowing the saving seed of the Kingdom of Heaven far and > wide through the entire world. Very many disciples of the time, their > hearts smitten by the word of God with an ardent passion for true > philosophy, first fulfilled the Saviour's command by distributing > their possessions among the needy; then, leaving their homes behind, > they carried out the work of the evangelists, ambitious to preach to > those who had never yet heard the message of the faith and to give > them the inspired gospels in writing. Staying only to lay the > foundations of the faith in one foreign place or another, appoint > others as pastors, and entrust to the the tending of those newly > brought in, they set off again for other lands and peoples with the > grace and cooperation of God, **for even at that late date many > miraculous powers of the divine Spirit worked through them**, so that at > the first hearing while crowds in a body embraced with a whole-hearted > eagerness the worship of the universal Creator. To me, this seems to imply that readers at Eusebius' time would not expect performing miracles to be a gift that one could possess. Is this line of thing correct? To further clarify, I'm using the same definition of cessationism found on Got Questions > Most cessationists believe that, while God can and still does perform > miracles today, the Holy Spirit no longer uses individuals to perform > miraculous signs.

This question, addressed to Trinitarian Protestants, regards the *nature* of the incident related by Luke, Acts 2:3, when a manifestation of fiery tongues was seen in association with the eleven, after the ascension of Jesus Christ. It is notable that the only manifestation of the Holy Spirit, *himself*, is when, in a direct involvement between Father and Son, he is seen bodily descending, Luke 3:22, in a dove-like form, upon the newly baptised Jesus. I suggest that the manifestation of tongues is not that of the Person, himself, but rather of *what is being gifted*, as a *result* of the Person’s indwelling. Most Protestant Trinitarian commentators of whom I am aware have viewed the manifestation of the Angel of the Lord, or of other angelic presences (such as the three coming to Abraham, the one with whom Jacob wrestled, the angel seen going up in a flame by Manoah and his wife, and the presence in the fiery furnace) as *temporary manifestations* of He who would, later, be fully incarnate. None, that I know of, attribute any such manifestations as being of the Person of the Holy Spirit, making the visibility of the descent, as a dove, a *unique event*. And I have never heard or read any suggestion that such would ever be expected to happen again to any other person. The Head has been anointed and the body shall receive the anointing via the Head and within that body. Then the fact of tongues only ever being seen to visibly descend upon the eleven, and those directly associated with them and nobody else, might therefore suggest that this event is, also, unique, the only other comparable occurrence being, Acts 19:2, in the case of twelve who, since they had never even heard of the Holy Spirit, could not have been aware of either of the above events and therefore were granted an experience similar to, though differing from, that which was unique. Does the *unique character* of these events not point to a non-repetition of them and point to a considered and balanced attitude that such things have, indeed, ceased ? I am interested in hearing argument, to the contrary, from a Protestant and Trinitarian standpoint. -------------------------------------- As stated below in comment : the unique character of the tongues incident (similar to the uniqueness of the descent) suggests to me a non-repetition and I am looking for reasoned arguments to the contrary.

Do the following two passages support the reformationist doctrine of cessationism? Cessationism: the belief that the miraculous gifts of the Holy Spirit ceased with the apostolic age. *Matthew 12:38-40* >Then some of the scribes and Pharisees answered him, saying, 'Teacher, we wish to see a sign from you.' But he answered them, 'An evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign, but **no sign will be given** to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.' Luke 11:29-30 >When the crowds were increasing, he began to say, 'This generation is an evil generation. It seeks for a sign, but **no sign will be given** to it except the sign of Jonah. For as Jonah became a sign to the people of Nineveh, so will the Son of Man be to this generation.' Answers from the perspective of Cessation would be preferred.

> For as many as are **led by the Spirit of God**, they are the sons of God. [Romans 8:14 KJV] > 16 This I say then, **Walk in the Spirit**, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18 But if ye **be led of the Spirit**, ye are not under the law. [Galatians 5:16-18 KJV] How are Christians led by the Holy Spirit according to Cessationism? For instance, when a Christian has to make an important life decision in which he/she would really like to hear God's opinion on the matter through the direct lead of the Holy Spirit, what should such a Christian do and possibly expect to receive according to the Cessationist view? Some concrete real life situations that come to mind where the lead of the Holy Spirit would be quite helpful include: - Knowing one's calling (*should I be a pastor, teacher, evangelist, missionary, etc.?*) - Deciding what career to pursue. - Choosing one's spouse (or whether to remain celibate for the sake of the gospel). - In the case of a pastor or another church leader, the discernment to decide who will join them in positions of leadership in the church (ideally, one would like that these people were directly chosen by the Holy Spirit Himself, because He has the perfect discernment). - Avoiding dangerous situations, especially when they are unpredictable (not for the Holy Spirit, of course). - Being led by the Holy Spirit, possibly in supernatural ways, to approach and share the gospel with specific individuals, especially at the right place and time when they are ready to receive it. ___ Related questions: - https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/9120/50422 - https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/80658/50422 - https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/84215/50422 - https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/83881/50422

Was Jacob Arminius a cessationist and credobaptist? An article I am reading claims that he did not believe in infant baptism or in spiritual gifts today.

Allow me to clearly illustrate the existence of controversy by way of examples. As a first example, consider the book [*Marvels & Miracles: God Wrought in the Ministry for Forty-Five Years*](https://www.amazon.com/Marvels-Miracles-Wrought-Ministry-Forty-Five/dp/1534965351/) , which includes a synopsis featuring an inspiring message for those seeking a deeper relationship with God (bolded): > Often described as the 'Grandmother of the Pentecostal Movement', Maria Woodworth Etter was a figurehead of the early Pentecostal and Charismatic Christian movement. Her ministry would touch hundreds of thousands and eventually through the power of her books, millions. Thousands more would attend her Holy Spirit-filled meetings, bringing the sick, the lame, the possessed and the lost. In those meetings the Holy Spirit would visit in such a powerful way that men and women would "lay like dead" while other would start trembling or speaking in tongues. Marvels and Miracles is Maria's accounts of the marvels and miracles that took place during her ministry. It speaks of her calling, her initial lack of self-belief in being able to follow that calling and the signs and wonders that followed once she had accepted it. **For anyone seeking a deeper relationship with God or for those who are yearning to read about what he is able to do through those who pick up the mantle of faith, Marvels and Miracles promises to show you**. As a second example, consider Jack S. Deere's teachings in his book [*Why I Am Still Surprised by the Voice of God: How God Speaks Today through Prophecies, Dreams, and Visions*](https://www.amazon.com/Surprised-Voice-God-Through-Prophecies-dp-0310108152/dp/0310108152/ref=dp_ob_title_bk) : > Not only does God still speak to us apart from the Scriptures—**we should expect Him to**. > > This is the story of how Jack Deere learned to hear the voice of God in his life **and how you can too**. It’s clear that the ideas promoted by these books would raise some eyebrows among critics like [Jordan Standridge](https://www.gracechurch.org/standridge) from Grace Community Church, who expressed his views at the Cripplegate, where he [wrote](https://thecripplegate.com/three-reasons-god-is-a-cessationist/) : > ### Three Reasons God is a Cessationist > > [...] > > God is not the author of chaos. And that’s the only way to describe what happened in 1914 at the Azusa street revival. For more than 1800 years of church history, God had stopped giving men sign gifts until supposedly He let man out of his box again. This produced speaking in unintelligible languages. It produced unconfirmed and unprovable healings, and, ultimately, turned prophecy into unreliable and fallible statements. It produced women preaching, and all kinds of ecclesiological problems. > > And as we look around today, so many questions arise. As we hear of all the miraculous gifts that are being claimed all over the world, we have to ask ourselves a simple question. Has God taken man out of his “can’t do miracles box” after 1800 years of church history and given them back the abilities that a few people at the beginning of the church age had? If he has, why has he entrusted these TBN money-hungry charlatans with these abilities? However, [J. P. Moreland](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._P._Moreland)—an American philosopher, theologian, Christian apologist, and distinguished Professor of Philosophy at Talbot School of Theology at Biola University—would counter with his latest book, [*A Simple Guide to Experience Miracles: Instruction and Inspiration for Living Supernaturally in Christ*](https://www.amazon.com/Simple-Guide-Experience-Miracles-Supernaturally/dp/0310124190) , whose synopsis states: > Does God Still Do Miracles Today? *A Simple Guide to Experience Miracles* will give you confidence in and awareness of the supernatural realm as you learn how to flourish spiritually by experiencing more miraculous interventions in your life and ministry. Internationally renowned philosopher J. P. Moreland looks at the nature of miracles and explains **why bearing and receiving credible testimony to God's miraculous acts is a crucial feature of a mature Jesus-follower**. He also shows how to distinguish a real miracle from a mere coincidence. **Miracles bring comfort to believers, strengthening faith in God and creating boldness in our lives**. In other words, for J. P. Moreland, diving deep into one's relationship with God and maturing as a follower of Jesus means embracing the miraculous aspects of Christian living. However, let’s set aside the controversy surrounding the miraculous for now and let's focus instead on seeking God’s face—a central theme throughout the Bible. GotQuestions explores this in their article titled [*What does it mean to seek God’s face?*](https://www.gotquestions.org/seek-Gods-face.html) , which explains: > The true nature of worship is to seek God’s face. The Christian walk is a life devoted to seeking God’s presence and favor. The Lord wants us to humbly and trustingly seek His face in our prayers and in our times in His Word. It requires intimacy to look intently into someone’s face. **Pursuing God’s face is equivalent to developing an intimate relationship with Him**: “O God, you are my God; I earnestly search for you. My soul thirsts for you; my whole body longs for you in this parched and weary land where there is no water. I have seen you in your sanctuary and gazed upon your power and glory. Your unfailing love is better than life itself; how I praise you!” (Psalm 63:1–3, NLT). > > [...] > > Seeking God’s face means desiring to know His character and wanting Him—**His presence**—more than any other thing He can give us. According to GotQuestions, *seeking God’s face* involves developing an *intimate relationship with God* and pursuing *His presence*. Essentially, one mystery is explained with two mysteries. If we concentrate purely on the aspect of pursuing *God's presence*, one might consider the approach of [Brother Lawrence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brother_Lawrence) , a 17th-century Carmelite friar, who authored the well-known classic of Christian mysticism, [*The Practice of the Presence of God*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Practice_of_the_Presence_of_God) : > The text attempts to explain Lawrence's method of acquiring the presence of God. A summary of his approach can be gleaned from the following passages. "That he had always been governed by love, without selfish views; and that having resolved to make the love of GOD the end of all his actions, he had found reasons to be well satisfied with his method. That he was pleased when he could take up a straw from the ground for the love of GOD, seeking Him only, and nothing else, not even His gifts." "That in order to form a habit of conversing with GOD continually, and referring all we do to Him; we must at first apply to Him with some diligence: but that after a little care we should find His love inwardly excite us to it without any difficulty." Lawrence pleads that all work is valuable to God and one need not accomplish great things to please Him. The labourer is as valuable to God as the priest. (Note: a comprehensive list of 17th-century Christian mystics is available [here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:17th-century_Christian_mystics).) Yet again, someone like John MacArthur, in his sermon [*The Promise of the Holy Spirit, Part 2*](https://www.gty.org/library/sermons-library/43-75/the-promise-of-the-holy-spirit-part-2) , would offer a contrasting viewpoint: > It was a number of years ago now – it’s probably been 20 years or so ago – when I was surprised to see a wave coming into the church under the title *Experiencing* God, *Experiencing* God. If you go to any Christian bookstore over the last 20 years or more, you’re going to find books on experiencing God. There were a couple of Southern Baptist pastors who developed, not only the books, the perspective, but then began to develop curriculum, and more curriculum, and more books; and this literally became an all-encompassing, all-engulfing movement in the evangelical church experiencing God. > > [...] > > **Christian mysticism, through the Middle Ages, and even until now, has always sought to find God in some experience, some feeling, some emotion; some means by which the senses imminence is present. This has become a popular notion in evangelical churches that there are ways in which you can feel God, in which you can sense God’s presence**. > > Perhaps the most popular one is music. If you get the right music, if the music is sort of musically seductive enough and emotionally energized enough, people will say, “I just feel the presence of God. Don’t you feel the presence of God?” > > **Well, of course, that is absolute nonsense. You can’t feel the presence of God. You don’t have any mechanism to feel the presence of God. I’ve never felt the presence of God; I don’t even know what that means.** But I do know this: He’s here. And more than that, He not only inhabits the praise of His people; is joined to His people in union all the time so that the church itself literally is in constant communion with God collectively; it’s not only true that where two or three are gathered together, He is in the midst. But, this is true. --- Why is there such a controversy among Christians over defining core and fundamental aspects of Christian living, **particularly in regard to understanding the nature of a relationship with God and what it entails**, including what Christians can yearn for, aspire to, and expect from such a relationship?

Why do cessationalists seem to especially target prophecy, tongues, and apostleship, as the manifestations of the Spirit that have ceased? Scripture states the manifestation of the Spirit comes in different forms: workings, gifts, services. This includes the 5-fold ministries, plus healing, administration, serving, leadership, words of knowledge, giving, etc. as well as prophecy and tongues, and nowhere does it say that any of them would or have ceased before our individual or unified perfection and fullness has been obtained, which has not occurred, and probably cannot happen in this age. On the contrary, the apostle Paul especially encourages prophecy and writes not to disallow even tongues. Why not claim all the manifestations of the Spirit have ceased including pastors and teachers vs. just the ones they are theologically or experientially biased against? Why not just say everyone can just read their Bibles for themselves and that is enough? I have yet to hear real Biblical evidence that the spiritual gifts have ceased or had a time-stamp on them in this age. Bible-believing Christians who take that position seem to selectively ignore verses that speak of spiritual gifts' ongoing importance, such as 1 Cor 12:4-7, 1 Cor 14:1,5,12,39-40, Ephesians 4:11-16 (with special emphasis on verse 13 word "UNTIL").

I'm intrigued by whether Christians holding such beliefs exist and how they rationalize their stance. Is it coherent to affirm that God still performs miracles while denying the ongoing bestowal of miraculous gifts? More specifically, I'm curious about: - Their understanding of what constitutes a miracle (as opposed to a mundane or natural event). - Their distinction between miraculous and non-miraculous gifts. - Their reasoning behind believing in the continuation of miracles. - Their reasoning behind believing in the cessation of miraculous gifts. - Whether they justify their position using exegesis only, an analysis of historical/empirical data, or a mixture of both.

Cessationism is the belief held by some protestants that the miraculous gifts of the Holy Spirit, such as prophecy, do not occur in present day. The general thinking is that these gifts "ceased" at the completion of the canon, closing any new revelation. What is the basis for this belief? I'm interested in Biblical, logical, empirical and historical arguments.

The book of Acts includes several examples: > *Then **the Spirit said to Philip**, “Go up and join this chariot.”* Acts 8:29 > *While Peter was reflecting on the vision, **the Spirit said to him**, “Behold, three men are looking for you. But get up, go downstairs and accompany them without misgivings, for I have sent them Myself.”* Acts 10:19-20 > ***The Spirit told me** to go with them without misgivings. These six brethren also went with me and we entered the man’s house.​* Acts 11:12 > *While they were ministering to the Lord and fasting, **the Holy Spirit said**, “Set apart for Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.”* Acts 13:2 > *6 And they went through the region of Phrygia and Galatia, **having been forbidden by the Holy Spirit** to speak the word in Asia. 7 And when they had come up to Mysia, they attempted to go into Bithynia, **but the Spirit of Jesus did not allow them**. 8 So, passing by Mysia, they went down to Troas. 9 **And a vision appeared to Paul in the night**: a man of Macedonia was standing there, urging him and saying, “Come over to Macedonia and help us.” 10 **And when Paul had seen the vision**, immediately we sought to go on into Macedonia, concluding that **God had called us** to preach the gospel to them.* Acts 16:6-10 > *9 He had four unmarried daughters, who prophesied. 10 While we were staying for many days, a prophet named Agabus came down from Judea. 11 And coming to us, he took Paul's belt and bound his own feet and hands and said, “**Thus says the Holy Spirit**, ‘This is how the Jews at Jerusalem will bind the man who owns this belt and deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.’”* Acts 21:9-11 In Luke 4:1 Jesus Himself is described as being led by the Holy Spirit: > ***And Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit**, returned from the Jordan **and was led by the Spirit in the wilderness***. Luke 4:1 Do Cessationists believe that this is still happening today? *\(\*\) Note that the messages need not be communicated via mechanical sound waves travelling through the air necessarily, they could be communicated telepathically, or by impressing the sounds directly into the disciple's mind (aka "hearing a voice in one's head"), etc. Whatever the means, the point is that the Holy Spirit was communicating clear, specific messages or instructions to the disciples in the book of Acts (and to Jesus in the Gospels). Do Cessationists believe that the Holy Spirit is still doing that today?*

Note: I truly do not mean to reopen debate about cessationism or ask about the basis of it or contrary views. I'm just asking about terms and how this one would be classified. _______ ## The Question Is hearing directly from God (or Christ or the Holy Spirit) *in either words to the ear, or clear words in the mind as “Other”* one of the Supernatural Fruits of the Spirit, and hence directly subject to the cessationism debate, and hence also something the Church Fathers experienced? Is this generally referred to as revelation, as opposed to prophesy? Do Christians believe (or, which Christians believe, including **you** if Christian) that this happens in modern times to some Christians? _______ ## Notes and links: Related: Depending upon the delineation made in the above by any answers, then my last question has already been asked and answered somewhat: https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/10041/54533 Related: This question has examples from the Bible of God talking to people, and an answer says that Reformed Theology includes it as one of the things that they claim has ceased: https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/80658/50422 I believe there are examples of church fathers hearing from God, and am even more certain they acquainted with and believed those who did, don’t recall which question that was. Finally, [Al Brown’s thoughts on cessationism generally](https://christianity.stackexchange.com/a/84727/54533) (which is not this question).

John 14:8-14 (NIV): > 8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.” 9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. **11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves. 12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father**. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it. My understanding of verse 11 is that Jesus is pointing to the works he has done that give evidence that the Father is in him, which without a doubt include the signs and wonders he had been performing during his ministry. Then in verse 12 he says _"**whoever believes in me** will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these"_. How do Cessationists interpret this passage, especially verses 11 and 12? _______ Edit: Luke 7:20-23 (NIV) gives explicit examples of the works Jesus did: > 20 When the men came to Jesus, they said, “John the Baptist sent us to you to ask, ‘Are you the one who is to come, or should we expect someone else?’” 21 At that very time Jesus cured many who had diseases, sicknesses and evil spirits, and gave sight to many who were blind. 22 So he replied to the messengers, **“Go back and report to John what you have seen and heard: The blind receive sight, the lame walk, those who have leprosy are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, and the good news is proclaimed to the poor**. 23 Blessed is anyone who does not stumble on account of me.”

As a follow-up to my previous question https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/89378/50422 , I would like to know now about the implications that the doctrine of [*Sola Scriptura*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sola_scriptura) might or might not have over one's position in the debate between [Cessationism & Continuationism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cessationism_versus_continuationism) . Does *Sola Scriptura* entail Cessationism? (And if so, to what extent?) Is it possible to believe that the Bible is *"the sole infallible source of authority for Christian faith and practice"* and be simultaneously open to extra-biblical divine means of revelation and guidance such as: - dreams & visions ([related](https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/83049/50422)) , - prophetic revelations ([related](https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/87277/50422)) , - words of knowledge ([related](https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/80327/50422)) , - receiving instructions from the Holy Spirit ([related](https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/80658/50422)) , - angelic visitations ([related](https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/86115/50422)) , - Christophanies ([related](https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/83590/50422)) , - Theophanies ([related](https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/86465/50422)) , - miracles ([related](https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/86098/50422)) , - etc.?

The GotQuestions.org article [Are there prophets in the church today?](https://www.gotquestions.org/prophets-today.html) asks the following rhetorical question (in bold): > Are there true prophets today? **If the purpose of a prophet was to reveal truth from God, why would we need prophets if we have the completed revelation from God in the Bible?** If prophets were the “foundation” of the early church, are we still building the “foundation” today? Can God give someone a message to deliver to someone else? Absolutely! Does God reveal truth to someone in a supernatural way and enable that person to deliver that message to others? Absolutely! But is this the biblical gift of prophecy? No. Notice that the question relies on the premise that "we have the completed revelation from God in the Bible". **Question** What is the basis for the claim that "we have the completed revelation from God in the Bible"? **Note**: I'm not asking for the basis for the belief in a closed canon. Although that topic is related, notice that it is possible to believe in both a closed canon and the continuation of non-canonical (divine) revelations. ___ **Related questions** - https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/85908/50422 - https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/90560/50422 - https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/90502/50422 ___ #### Appendix - Clarifying terminology **Closed canon** Ironically, I find the following quote from this [GotQuestions.org article](https://www.gotquestions.org/closed-canon.html) quite handy: > The canon of Scripture refers to all the books in the Christian Bible and Hebrew Scriptures that together constitute the complete and divinely inspired Word of God. Only the books of the canon are considered authoritative in matters of faith and practice. **The idea of a closed canon is that the Bible is complete; no more books are being added to it**. God is not appending His Word. Emphasis mine. In other words, a closed canon, to my understanding, means that God has no further plans to providentially intervene in human history to add new chapters or books to the Bible. That's it. It doesn't mean that God cannot reveal new things outside of the Bible, although those new revelations will not be appended to the Bible (to remain consistent with the premise of a closed canon). For example, someone might be taken up to the third heaven and receive revelations from God that no-one else knows, and yet the canon would still remain closed because those revelations would not be appended to the canon. There is no contradiction. **Non-canonical revelations** By non-canonical (divine) revelations I mean revelations from God that are not officially recorded in the Biblical canon. I recommend reading [this answer](https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/a/54304/38524) to the question [What was the purpose of the Old Testament prophecies whose contents were not recorded for posterity?](https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/q/54296/38524) to better understand this point. UPDATE: I also recommend reading [this answer](https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/a/76560/38524) to the question [Is there a contradiction between Hebrews 1:1-3 and Acts 21:8-11?](https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/q/76551/38524)

- To the half-billion plus Charismatic Christians in the world, what message does this “term” send? - What is the Biblical basis for the calling of the Charismatic movement as Strange Fire? (Audio/transcript Strange Fire by John MacArthur) The first "**Strange fire Conference**" launched in October 2013 with stated purpose: to evaluates the doctrines, claims, and practices of the modern charismatic movement, and affirms the true Person and ministry of the Holy Spirit. This conference was coincided with the release of the "**STRANGE FIRE**, **The Danger of Offending The Holy Spirit with Counterfeit Worship**" by the best selling author, John MacArthur. It is obvious that **the choice of the term** - "**Strange Fire**" for the conference and book was **by design** out of his conviction about Charismatic movement is "Strange Fire" (Leviticus 10:1).

Here is a summarized version of the 7 arguments for Cessationism by Tom Pennington reiterated at the Strange Fire conference ([source](https://www.challies.com/liveblogging/strange-fire-conference-a-case-for-cessationism/)) : 1. ***The unique role of miracles*** - For authentication of the messenger(s). God worked miracles through unique men - Moses; Elijah and Elisha; Christ and his apostles. 2. ***The end of the gift of apostleship*** - Apostleship was a church office gift (1 Cor 12:28; Eph 4) that ceased with the death of the Apostles. 3. ***The foundational nature of the New Testament apostles and prophets*** - Apostles and prophets laid the foundation of the Christ' Church (Eph 2:20-22). 4. ***The nature of the New Testament miraculous gifts*** - Alleged "miracles" reported after the Apostles are not of the same type, e.g., disparity between modern day healings and NT healings; "Tongues" gibberish vs. known languages, etc. 5. ***The testimony of church history*** - The practice of apostolic gifts declined even during the lifetimes of the apostles. Even in the written books of the New Testament, the miraculous gifts are mentioned less as the date of their writing gets later. 6. ***The sufficiency of Scripture*** - The Spirit speaks only in and through the inspired Word. 7. ***The New Testament governed the miraculous gifts*** - Whenever the New Testament gifts of tongues was to be practiced, there were specific rules that were to be followed. These rules are not followed by charismatics today. See the linked article above for the full exposition of the arguments. How do Continuationists rebut them? ___ Related: - https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/90502/50422 - https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/63274/50422 - https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/92205/50422

In a related question , it is stated that the practice of apostolic gifts declined during the lifetimes of the apostles. For example, Norman Geisler in his book *Signs & Wonders* writes (p. 137): > ...the same apostle who could heal everyone on a whole island (Acts > 28:9) could no longer heal his coworkers in the ministry. The apostles > could heal a person born lame (Acts 3), but Paul could not give > Timothy miraculous relief from a simple stomach ailment and had to > recommend that he take medicine for it (1 Timothy 5:23)...the same > apostle who once had the power to raise the dead (Acts 20) now cannot > even raise his needed friend Trophimus from a sick bed (2 Timothy > 4:20) Does this indicate that there was a decline in the number of miracles in the first century? If so, how would continuationists respond to such an observation? Or, is this a case of the absence of evidence not being the same as the evidence of absence?

Arguments for the historicity of the resurrection of Jesus strongly rely on testimonial evidence. Defenders of Jesus' resurrection as a historical fact typically argue that the writings of the New Testament are reliable first- or second-hand [eyewitness testimonies](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eyewitness_testimony) in support of the resurrection, despite arguments to the contrary pointing out the implausibility of miracles (according to scientific common sense), the degree of uncertainty introduced by the antiquity of the writings (they were written about 2000 years ago) and the impossibility to interview the primary sources (all self-proclaimed eyewitnesses have long since died). Simply put, the evidence for the resurrection of Jesus consists of (1) the alleged first/second-hand eyewitness accounts compiled in the NT and (2) the willingness of early Christians to withstand persecution and martyrdom for what they believed to be true. Many find these two pieces of evidence put together compelling enough to warrant their belief in the resurrection. Others, more skeptical, would remain unwilling to accept the claim unless higher standards of evidence were to be presented. To the best of my knowledge, cessationists have no issue whatsoever in accepting Jesus' miraculous resurrection on the basis of this "testimonial argument" referenced above. That said, when it comes to the testimonial evidence of the spiritual gifts **after the apostolic age**, especially in modern times, an implicit double standard seems to be at play on the cessationist side. Contemporary firsthand accounts about how the spiritual gifts are still active abound. Unlike previous generations, in this internet era we have a privilege as never before to access an endless supply of firsthand eyewitness accounts witnessing to all kinds of miracles and supernatural experiences, including spiritual gifts such as tongues, words of knowledge, healings, etc. See the appendix below for a more exhaustive list of examples. Surprisingly, despite the abundancy, recency and accessibility of contemporary firsthand eyewitness testimonies, cessationists usually disregard this evidence altogether, judging it to be unreliable, while paradoxically believing the eyewitness accounts for the resurrection of Jesus. Isn't this a case of double standard? What kind of logically consistent epistemology can simultaneously regard (1) limited 2000-year-old testimonial evidence as reliable and (2) abundant, recent and accessible testimonial evidence as unreliable? ___________________ ### Appendix **Examples of evidence for the continuation of the spiritual gifts after the apostolic age:** - [Is there any historical evidence that the supernatural gifts of the Spirit were still in operation after the apostolic age?](https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/84305/50422) - [Charismatic Gifts in the Early Church: An Exploration into the Gifts of the Spirit During the First Three Centuries of the Christian Church](https://www.amazon.com/dp/0913573094) - [Are there any documented cases of Xenoglossy (i.e. “Acts 2:1-13 type” tongues, understood by a foreigner) in recent history (19th century on)?](https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/80486/50422) - [Are there any accounts of “words of knowledge” taking place outside of Pentecostal and Charismatic denominations?](https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/80327/50422) - [Are there or have there been Christian healing ministries that have documented healing cases with supporting medical records?](https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/82583/50422) - [Miracles Never Ceased: The History of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit to Today](https://www.kylewinkler.org/articles/miracles-never-ceased/) - [Why I Am Still Surprised by the Power of the Spirit: Discovering How God Speaks and Heals Today](https://rads.stackoverflow.com/amzn/click/com/031010811X) - [The Case for Miracles: A Journalist Investigates Evidence for the Supernatural](https://www.amazon.com/Case-Miracles-Journalist-Investigates-Supernatural/dp/0310259185) - [Miracles : 2 Volumes: The Credibility of the New Testament Accounts](https://www.amazon.com/Miracles-volumes-Credibility-Testament-Accounts-ebook/dp/B007KOI2PY/) - [Miracles: Eyewitness to Some of the Greatest Miracles of Our Time](https://www.amazon.com/Miracles-R-W-Shambach/dp/0768428300/) - [The Miracles: A Medical Doctor Says Yes to Miracles!](https://www.amazon.com/Miracles-Medical-Doctor-Says-Yes/dp/B007RXEG58) - [The Shantung Revival (The Greatest Revival in Baptist Church History)](https://www.amazon.com/Shantung-Revival-Greatest-Baptist-History/dp/0974075612) - [Authentic Fire: A Response to John MacArthur's Strange Fire](https://www.amazon.com/Authentic-Fire-Response-MacArthurs-Strange/dp/1629984558) - [How often do Christian missionaries report occurrences of miracles while on the mission field?](https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/79994/50422) - [Listen to Me, Satan!](https://www.amazon.com/Listen-Me-Satan-Carlos-Annacondia/dp/1599792346) - Etc.

Here are the 7 arguments for Cessationism by Tom Pennington reiterate at the Strange Fire conference. (posted on www.challies.com ) (summarized version) 1. ***The unique role of miracles*** - For authentication of the messenger(s). God worked miracles through unique men - Moses; Elijah and Elisha; Christ and his apostles. 2. ***The end of the gift of apostleship*** - The Apostleship was one the gifts of church offices (1 Cor 12:28; Eph 4), and the gift gone with the death of Apostles. 3. ***The foundational nature of the New Testament apostles and prophets*** - Apostles and prophets laid the foundation of the Christ' Church (Eph 2:20-22). 4. ***The nature of the New Testament miraculous gifts*** - Alleged "miracles" reported after the Apostles are not same type, e.g., disparity between modern day healings and NT healings; "Tongues," gibberish vs. known languages, etc. 5. ***The testimony of church history*** - The practice of apostolic gifts declines even during the lifetimes of the apostles. Even in the written books of the New Testament, the miraculous gifts are mentioned less as the date of their writing gets later. 6. ***The suffucuency of Scripture*** - The Spirit speaks only in and through the inspired Word. 7. ***The New Testament governed the miraculous gifts*** - Whenever the New Testament gifts of tongues was to be practiced, there were specific rules that were to be followed. For full post by Tim Challies, click above link

> Classical Cessationism asserts that the "sign gifts" such as prophecy, healing and speaking in tongues ceased with the apostles and the finishing of the canon of Scripture. They only served as launching pads for the spreading of the Gospel; as affirmations of God's revelation. If those people who lived around Christ's time witnessed miracles, and thus believed in God after seeing miracles, how is it that we who are living in the present age are expected to believe in God if we don't see any miracles? In the present day, why is it that we have to believe the humans, normal people who don't perform miracles, that preach the Gospel, that what they say is true? Isn't it "unfair" that we humans today have to believe on what other people preach without seeing any miracles, but people in Christ's time got to see miracles and thus it was easier to believe in God?