I will often engage in dialogue with Catholics and Orthodox Christians who tell me that the doctrine of their churches affirms that salvation is by grace through faith. If that is true, then what distinguishes Lutherans from Catholics and Eastern Orthodox Christians?

There are a multiplicity of contemporary claims regarding Jesus made by folks who refer to themselves as Christian. 1) Jesus was and is both God and man. 2) Jesus was and is only man 3) Jesus was an angel, became a man, and is an angel again. (Or was and is both.) 4) Jesus was a man and now is God. These are, perhaps, not all of the options and certainly not all of the nuances. What I have not come across is a contemporary claim that Jesus was God only and not really man at all. Docetism is one form of the sort of thing I am referring to but I am unaware if Docetism is still alive under the umbrella of claimed Christianity: > In the history of Christianity, docetism (from the Koinē Greek: δοκεῖν/δόκησις dokeĩn "to seem", dókēsis "apparition, phantom"1 ) was the doctrine that the phenomenon of Jesus, his historical and bodily existence, and above all the human form of Jesus, was mere semblance without any true reality.[3] Broadly it is taken as the belief that Jesus only seemed to be human, and that his human form was an illusion. - Wikipedia I have seen articles describing "docetic christianity " wherein the importance of being led of the Spirit becomes so magnified that human responsibility to any sort of biblical hermeneutic disappears: > On this view, it becomes unimportant whether Jesus lived or died according to the Gospel records. What matters is the ethical and existential message of the stories about him; how the story affects my understanding of myself. This begins to sound like what I have seen described as Christian Atheism in practice, but theologically cannot be since Christian Atheism denies the existence of God: Are there any contemporary denominations who claim to be Christian and whose theology holds that Jesus was God only and not really human?

A friend recently made the following statement regarding the heresy of Arianism: >The conflict was about the nature of Christ before the Creation of the Universe. It was a Philosophical/Metaphysical cum Theological difference which really had no practical manifestation in terms of Saving Faith or practice. As Arianism denies the divinity of Christ and the fullness of the Godhead, I am inclined to disagree. (The emphasis of my studies are mostly biblical theology with an Old Testament emphasis and this is a systematics issue.) What impact, if any, does an Arian view of Christ have on a person's salvation? While I welcome answers from a purely biblical perspective, I also welcome historical arguments and answers quoting authors from the time of and close to the controversy.

The Babylon spoken of in Revelation chapter 14;8 KJV is clearly labeled as a city, and in Chapter 18:1 & 2 it seems to be more of a systematic degradation of God's holy words. In chapter 19:1, 2 & 3 God is judging Babylon which would lead me to believe that it would more suit judging Satan and his minions. Rev_14:8 KJV And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication. Rev 18:1 & 2 KJV 1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. 2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. Rev 19:1, 2 &3 KJV 1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God: 2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand. 3 And again they said, Alleluia. And her smoke rose up for ever and ever. David Gusik puts forth these words in his commentary on Revelation 14:8; >Revelation 14:8 An angel announces Babylon's fall. >And another angel followed, saying, "Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she has made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication." Babylon is fallen: More on Babylon will come in Revelation 17. For now, it is enough to see it representing mankind in organized rebellion against God. "Prophetically, 'Babylon' sometimes refers to a literal city, sometimes to a religious system, sometimes to a political system, all stemming from the evil character of historic Babylon." (Walvoord) Because she has made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication: When we are told that Babylon has led all nations into fornication, the main idea is spiritual fornication - the worship of other gods. However, we are never surprised to see spiritual fornication accompanied with literal immorality. Revelation 18 - The Fall of Commercial Babylon A. Announcing the fall of Babylon. 1. Introduction: is this the same Babylon as is described in chapter 17? a. Good scholars see the issue differently. Some point to two manifestations of Babylon, one religious and one commercial or material. Others see the two as one, both being judged at the same time. b. There are definite similarities between Babylon as described in Revelation 17 and Revelation 18. Both are under the rule of Antichrist, and have ruling queens; both are filled with blasphemy; both hate the saints, and shed their blood; both are associates with kings in fornication; and both are under judgment and destroyed. c. However, there are also some significant differences: Religious Babylon (Rev. 17) Commercial Babylon (Rev. 18) 1. Mystery Babylon 1. Great Babylon; Babylon the Great 2. Symbol: a harlot woman 2. Symbol: a great city 3. Identified with Rome (inland) 3. Identified with a port city 4. Woman, whore, and mother 4. Habitation, great city, market place 5. Guilty: religious 5. Guilty: greed, self-indulgence abominations 6. Destroyed by a political 6. Destroyed by a sudden act of God power that previously supported her d. In my view, it is best to see them as intertwined, yet somewhat distinct. Religious Babylon of Revelation 17 is judged at the mid-point of the seven- year period of tribulation. Commercial Babylon is judged at the end of that period.< Those and other commentaries I have studied have caused me to wonder if they were the same or one religious and one Commercial Can anyone recommend any sources for further study on this subject?

I have four closely related questions on this topic (if overall this is considered too broad, I'm happy to receive advice as to which questions—if any—would be better off in a separate post): 1. What is the earliest documented use of the term "Queen of Heaven" being applied to Mary, the mother of Jesus? (cf. Wikipedia on *the Virgin Mary as Queen of Heaven* - there seems to be a contradiction between the first and second paragraphs in this section ). 2. Given that the only Biblical references to this title are regarding a false goddess being worshipped in the nation of Judah during Jeremiah's time (cf. Wikipedia's *Queen of heaven (antiquity)* ), is there evidence of any discussion or dissent (over whether such a title was in any way appropriate) in evidence in the wider church when this title was being adopted and disseminated (prior to the Reformation)? 3. Are there any arguments from Church Fathers or other historical records of why such a title would have been adopted in the first place? 4. It seems on the surface (at least to some) that this might be an example of Syncretism , but perhaps there are convincing arguments that can exclude that possibility - if so what would be the outline of such arguments? Or otherwise, what additional evidence (ie not covered in 2. or 3.) would support the idea that this *is* an example of Syncretism? **Please note**: I'm looking for answers that are supported by quotes from Church fathers and Church historians, not doctrinal expositions from denominational perspectives. I'm only looking for a very brief outline of an argument (one way or the other) to question 4 (one or two paragraphs maximum) - if there are the seeds of a worthwhile further question to be developed from such responses, I will ask a separate question to elicit a more detailed answer."

When reading this [*Wikipedia* article on Sealing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealing_(Mormonism)) there is this paragraph: > The union of a sealed couple is regarded as valid only if both individuals have kept their religious covenants and followed Christ's teachings. **Just as deceased individuals may refuse any temple ordinance (such as a sealing) done by proxy on their behalf**, couples, parents, and children who were sealed to each other in life may refuse to accept a sealing of which they were a part. **No one will be sealed to any one with whom they do not want to be sealed.** I also read this about [Baptism (by proxy) for the dead](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics/baptisms-for-the-dead) : > Some people have misunderstood that when baptisms for the dead are performed, deceased persons are baptized into the Church against their will. This is not the case. **Each individual has agency, or the right to choose**. The validity of a proxy baptism depends on the deceased person accepting it and choosing to accept and follow the Savior while residing in the spirit world. The names of deceased persons are not added to the membership records of the Church. With the LDS church having practices where my descendants *may* in the future convert into the LDS church, and who then potentially want to baptize me by proxy (after my death) in a temple ordinance, how should I express my desire so that my future descendants will respect my wish *not* to be baptized into the LDS church (or sealed to them) by proxy? Hence the question: **How do individuals who refuse, notify the church so that living members do not attempt to perform temple ordinance on their behalf, after they pass away?** Will noting the wish in their Last Will and Testament be sufficient, or do they need to do something more, such as filling out a form?

Recently, I was discussing with some other users on this site the question of whether birds are dinosaurs or not. *(If you have a strong opinion on that, no need to leave a comment on this post - the discussion is in this chatroom .)* This leads to a slightly different topic, i.e. how organisms are classified in the first place. For the evolutionist, the question of whether birds are dinosaurs is a question of fact. In evolutionary biology, taxonomy is meant to reflect the family tree of organisms descended from a common ancestor. Therefore, a grouping is a claim of objective fact. Granted the *rankning* of taxa as "genus" or "family" etc. is subjective, but there is an objectively correct nesting based on ancestry. For instance, the category of "Mammalia" is all the descendants of the ancestral mammal. "Chiroptera" is all the descendants of the ancestral bat. When evolutionists classify bats as mammals, they are making the factual claim that the ancestral bat is descended from the ancestral mammal. (And of course, the existence of an objectively correct nesting should never be interpreted to mean that it can always be accurately discerned.) For the creationist, on the other hand, I don't see any apparent objective standard for classifying organisms that aren't descended from a common ancestor. On the topic of birds and dinosaurs, for instance, many creationists hold that birds are definitely not dinosaurs. Of these, Answers in Genesis is probably the most hardcore. They claim that this position is necessitated by Scripture , and go so far as to accuse young-earth creationists who believe otherwise as compromising with evolutionists and label them "Young Earth Evolutionists". They argue as follows: > Dinosaurs are land-dwelling animals. That means they were made on day six of creation (Genesis 1:24–25). Almost all birds are flying creatures to some degree, and they all have wings. Therefore, they most likely were all made on day five (Genesis 1:20–22). By saying or agreeing with the evolutionary claim that birds are dinosaurs or are most similar to dinosaurs, Dr. McLain is mixing groups made on different days of creation. However, AiG are somewhat inconsistent on this standard, as pointed out by this blog post by Joel Duff. The Bible classifies bats as birds (Leviticus 11:19), while Answers in Genesis is happy to teach children that bats are not birds but mammals. Also, other creation science organizations are more open minded. For instance: > However, the Bible uses functional classifications, according to the mode of locomotion and where they live, not anatomical ones...So on Day 5, the air creatures are called *‘ôph*, a generic word for flying creatures. This includes not only birds, but also bats and pterosaurs. Feathers are not mentioned. Similarly, there is nothing about the Day 6 land creatures that says that they cannot have feathers. **Thus creationists can’t rule out ‘feathered dinosaurs’ from Scripture alone.** > > "Did dinosaurs evolve into birds? " by Carter and Sarfati, published by Creation Ministries International. [emph. add] All this raises the question of how animals (or plants) can be classified objectively. It is not apparent what criteria are being used to determine whether bats are birds or mammals, other than the subjective judgment that they seem more mammalish than birdish. **Is there an objective standard which determines that traits like fur and lactation are more fundamental for classification than wings and flight?** Within the context of creation science, is the claim that bats are birds not mammals a claim of some objective reality? AiG does have an article related to this topic: "How Should Christians View Biological Classification? " by Henry F. Sanders, III. This goes at great lengths to criticize the evolutionary assumptions behind modern taxonomy, and calls for a return to Linnaeus's original idea. However, they give no argument that Linnaeus's system is *actually* correct. Sanders's conclusions are a little hard for me to construe. To those who would throw out taxonomy altogether, he says: > Some Christians have rejected taxonomy entirely in favor of a purportedly more biblical system. However, this position is functionally untenable. (I'm not sure exactly what he's referring to here.) His concluding argument in favor of Linnean taxonomy is based solely on practicality: > Having a system of classification, **however arbitrary,** is better than the abject disorder that would result without it. Removing the Linnaean system would return taxonomy to the veritable “Wild West” that it was before Linnaeus published his work, with names at the discretion of the taxonomist. This is certainly not a desirable outcome, nor could a Biblical replacement be achieved under the current ruling paradigm in the scientific community. > > [emph. added] They don't go as far as to say Linnean taxonomy is *actually* arbitrary, but make the softer claim that even if it is, it's still useful. So that's all building up to my main question: **For the Creation Science movement, is there an objective meaning to Linnean taxa (above the *baramin*-level)? Or are higher-level taxa indeed arbitrary?**

Lk. 2:35 (Douay-Rheims, 1899): > And thy own soul a sword shall pierce, that, out of many hearts, thoughts may be revealed How does a sword piercing Mary's heart cause thoughts to be revealed out of others' hearts? cf. Hermeneutics StackExchange question: "In Luke 2:35 what is meant by 'so that thoughts from many hearts may be revealed'? "

Definition: - **sola** scriptura (by scripture alone): scripture is the **supreme** authority, and is sufficient. - **solo** scriptura (scripture alone): scripture is the **only** authority. Cardinal Gibbons's argument is that: - All Catholic and Protestant denominations sanctify Sunday, treating it as a day of rest and worship. This is the most obvious of all sacred duties. Violating the "Lord's Day" is considered a sin. - The Bible does not sanctify Sunday, only the seventh day sabbath. - Therefore all denominations recognize a non-biblical truth as doctrine. - Therefore: - the concept of solo scriptura cannot be valid, because this doctrine comes from a non-biblical authority. - The concept of sola scriptura cannot be valid, because this doctrine means that the Bible isn't sufficient. > A rule of Faith, or a competent guide to heaven, must be able to instruct in all the truths necessary for salvation. Now **the Scriptures alone do not contain all the truths which a Christian is bound to believe**, nor do they explicitly enjoin all the duties which he is obliged to practice. Not to mention other examples, is not every Christian obliged to sanctify Sunday, and to abstain on that day from unnecessary servile work? Is not the observance of this law among the most prominent of our sacred duties? But **you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday**. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify. **The Catholic Church correctly teaches that our Lord and His Apostles inculcated certain important duties of religion which are not recorded by the inspired writers**. > > — James Cardinal Gibbons, [*The Faith of Our Fathers*](https://books.google.ca/books/about/The_Faith_of_Our_Fathers.html?id=xS03AAAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=kp_read_button&hl=en&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=3c&f=false) , p.111 How do denominations that believe in solo scriptura or sola scriptura respond to this argument? --- Some comments say Sunday isn't a doctrine. [Westminster Larger Catechism (1648)](https://fpcna.org/beliefs/wlc/) for instance says that not honoring the the sabbath is a **sin**. If that isn't doctrine, what is? > Question 119: What are the sins forbidden in the fourth commandment? Answer: The sins forbidden in the fourth commandment are, all omissions of the duties required, all careless, negligent, and unprofitable performing of them, and being weary of them; all profaning the day by idleness, and doing that which is in itself sinful; and by all needless works, words, and thoughts, about our worldly employments and recreations.

King Charles and Pope Leo become the first British monarch and Roman Pontiff to pray together at a church service ***since the Reformation in the 16th Century.*** That historic moment was in the Sistine Chapel in the Vatican, during a state visit by King Charles and Queen Camilla, late October 2025. >A Foreign Office spokeswoman said: "The Catholic Church is the largest denomination of the world's largest religion."As such, the King and Queen's visit will "strengthen the UK's relationship with this crucial and influential partner", she said. > >BBC NEWS 17th October 2025 : https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czxkrn7jvexo >The King will sit in a purpose-made seat, decorated with the King's coat of arms, which will stay in place for the King's future use ***and his successors.*** > >BBC NEWS 17th October 2025 : https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czxkrn7jvexo J C Philpot and William Tiptaft (the 'seceders') left the C of E in the 1830s as they could not in conscience way back then stay within it. Then, in 1966 Dr Martyn Lloyd Jones urged evangelicals within the C of E to stop supporting its continuing drift away from biblical truth by separating from it. At that time the equally influential John Stott publicly opposed that challenge, succeeding in persuading many to persist in trying to reform it from within. Now the current situation has developed into this historic, joint, public praying in the Vatican. **Yet, how can this be a 'reconciliation' when the C of E continues to endorse things Catholicism remains opposed to (such as the ordination of women, to name but one issue) ?** **Or is this, after 500 years, the complete capitulation of a claimed 'Protestant' denomination to the biblical truths it once upheld, overturning the Reformation ?**

Are there ancient writers that mentions halos/nimbus: from 1-8 century? 1. How was the halo adopted in the church? And what is its historicity? 2. I read from some sources that in the beginning it was reserved only for the Lord but in later time it was depicted on saints. 3. Did anyone wrote anything about it? Thanks in advance. ........................................................................... **UPDATE** I found only this - > “Marcus Servius Honoratus (Servius the Grammarian), a Roman grammarian of the late 4th century, > in his commentary on Virgil's works defines the Nimbus as a "divine > cloud" ("nimbo effulgens: nube divina, est enim fulgidum lumen quo > deorum capita cinguntur. Sic etiam pingi solet" - Servianorum in > Vergilii Carmina commentariorum / Ed. E. K. Rand. Lancaster, 1946. > Vol. 2. P. 471). The Latin theologian Isidore of Seville in his > Etymologies mentioned the Nimbus as a radiance around the heads of > angels (Isid. Hisp. Etymol. XIX 32. 2).” https://www.pravenc.ru/text/2577657.html **The Etymologies of Isidore of Seville (c. 560-636 AD?):** > **The light that is depicted as being around the heads of angels is > called a nimbus,** although a nimbus is also the dense part of a cloud > (nubis). 3.Ahood (capitulum) is commonly called a capitulare. This is > also called a cappa (i.e. another word for ‘hood,’ or perhaps > ‘kerchief’), because it has two tips like the letter kappa, or because > it is an ornament for the head (caput). >**(Isid. Hisp. Etymol. XIX 32. 2)** **(Page 404 in the pdf)** https://sfponline.org/Uploads/2002/st%20isidore%20in%20english.pdf ------------------------------- Are there maybe church fathers that talk about it or other persons besides from Marcus Servius Honoratus and Isidore of Seville? Additional information about the halo. https://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/112600/do-the-catholic-orthodox-believe-that-the-halo-is-apostolic-unwritten-traditio

**Question:** The question is how is it possible that pope Leo said all these things and comparing to the other church fathers what they have said about the worship towards the east, we see that this practice is very similar or identical to what pope Leo rebukes. Having in mind that some of the most ancient churches in Rome does not have entrance from West so people to pray towards the east. If pope Leo practiced praying towards the east he could at least mention this similarity I think in order to make it clear what he talks about, so there is no confusion. ----------------------------------------------------------------- **Sources and comments for clarification:** From [Sermon XXVII](https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/360327.htm) (c. 450 AD) of Pope Leo I (Leo the Great, c. 391-461 AD): > **V. The foolish practice of some who turn to the sun and bow to it is reprehensible** > > From such a system of teaching proceeds also the ungodly practice of certain foolish folk who worship the sun as it rises at the beginning of daylight from elevated positions: even some Christians think it is so proper to do this that, before entering the blessed Apostle Peter's basilica, which is dedicated to the One Living and true God, when they have mounted the steps which lead to the raised platform , they turn round and bow themselves towards the rising sun and with bent neck do homage to its brilliant orb. We are full of grief and vexation that this should happen, which is partly due to the fault of ignorance and partly to the spirit of heathenism: because although some of them do perhaps worship the Creator of that fair light rather than the Light itself, which is His creature, yet we must abstain even from the appearance of this observance: for if one who has abandoned the worship of gods, finds it in our own worship, will he not hark back again to this fragment of his old superstition, as if it were allowable, when he sees it to be common both to Christians and to infidels? > > Leo the Great, Sermons, ed. by Thomas P. Halton, trans. by Jane Patricia Freeland and Agnes Josephine Conway, The Fathers of the Church (Washington, DC: The Catholic University of America Press, 1996), XCIII, 113 (The apostle is saying similar thing - 2 Cor. 6:15) **What is the problem with this if Christians worship towards the East and do this every time when pray?** - turn themselves around towards the rising sun, and bow down to honor its shining disk...because although some of them do perhaps worship the Creator of that fair light Let's break down the above quote: > 1. The foolish practice of some who turn to the sun and bow to it is reprehensible > > 2. such a system of teaching proceeds also the ungodly practice of certain foolish folk who worship the sun as it rises > > 3. even some Christians think it is so proper to do this > > 4. We are full of grief and vexation that this should happen, which is partly due to the fault of ignorance and partly to the spirit of heathenism: > > 5. because although some of them do perhaps worship the Creator of that fair light rather than the Light itself, which is His creature, > > 6. yet we must abstain even from the appearance of this observance: > > 7. for if one who has abandoned the worship of gods, finds it in our own worship, will he not hark back again to this fragment of his old superstition, > > 8. as if it were allowable, when he sees it to be common both to Christians and to infidels? (The apostle is saying similar thing - 2 Cor. 6:15) Quote from *De architectura libri decem* (On Architecture, published as Ten Books on Architecture) by a Pagan (Marcus Vitruvius Pollio?) probably written between 30–20 BC: > ... so that those who approach with offerings and sacrifices will look toward the image within the temple beneath the eastern part of the heavens (*spectent ad partem caeli orientis*, i.e. look towards the eastern sky); and thus when they are raising their prayers, they will view both the temple and the rising heaven, while the images themselves will seem to be rising as well, to view the supplicant and sacrificers because it seems necessary that all altars of the gods face east. (*De architectura libri decem 4.5.1*) > > *Source*: [*Early Christian Prayer and Identity Formation*](https://gnosis.study/library/%D0%93%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B7%D0%B8%D1%81/+%20%D0%9D%D0%B5%20%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BA%D0%BE%20%D0%BE%20%D0%B3%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B7%D0%B8%D1%81%D0%B5/ENG/Early%20Christian%20Prayer%20and%20Identity%20Formation.pdf) ed. by Hvalvik and Sandness (Mohr Siebeck, 2014) page 66-67 See also: - https://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/62632/why-do-many-old-churches-face-east - *Wikipedia* articles: [De architectura](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_architectura) , [Vitruvius](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitruvius) - *Ten Books of Architecture* translated by Morris Hicky Morgan (1914): [scanned pdf copy](https://www.chenarch.com/images/arch-texts/0000-Vitruvius-50BC-Ten-Books-of-Architecture.pdf) - *Ten Books of Architecture* in original Latin: [*archive.org* online reader](https://archive.org/details/vitruviidearchit00vitr/page/202/mode/2up) I think that from this text and also looking at the ancient church buildings in Rome, we can see that the churches in Rome were not all facing West, something that is a common practice today. Now the most of the churches face West, so the people inside can worship towards the east. This is very strange to me. If some say that Pope Leo I prayed towards the east and bowed, would he say all this? It is ungodly to bow to the sun and honor the creator and honor the true light as some say, but it is pious practice if you are in the church and do the same thing? How should this be understood? Pope Leo I also says - "for if one who has abandoned the worship of gods, finds it in our own worship" and the (*De architectura libri decem 4.5.1*) shows that the pagans worshiped towards the East? Another quote, from Origen: > ... Of the four directions, the North, South, East, and West, who would not at once admit that the East clearly indicates the duty of praying with the face turned towards it with the symbolic suggestion that the soul is looking upon the dawn of the true light? ... > > *Source*: [*Origen on Prayer*](https://www.ecatholic2000.com/fathers/origen.shtml) Chapter XX: Formalities of Prayer: Conclusion ::::::::::::::::::::::::UPDATE::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: **Elaboration on the question that in my opinion must be taken in consideration in order to answer the question:** We stand at prayer we face the East, where the rise of the heavens begins ...facing the light! As the symbol of the Holy Spirit, it loves the (radiant) East, that figure of Christ...while its body is turned toward a heavenly body...you turned to the east...to Christ...looks upon him directly...look always to the east, where is the rising Sun of justice... ...that the soul is looking upon the dawn of the true light...In correspondence with the manner of the sun's rising, prayers are made looking towards the sunrise in the east. Whence also the most ancient temples looked towards the west,(Pagan temples?) that people might be taught to turn to the east when facing the images....the East is the direction that must be assigned to His worship…...but few know.....the reasons for this, I think, are not easily discovered by anyone...But this tradition of the apostles is unwritten. @DJClayworth About - Answer 1: 1. You say - "because they give the impression of worshipping the sun and bring disfavour on Christians." (If we look at what the church fathers say, it will not help to prove this, but the opposite.) Pope Leo 1 mentions - The foolish practice of some who turn to the sun and bow to it is reprehensible… some of them do perhaps worship the Creator of that fair light rather than the Light itself. In reality if we look at Origen ((32).44) Prayer, Exhortation to Martyrdom), (Origen - Homilies on Leviticus), Tertullian (the (radiant) East, that figure of Christ Tertullian Adv. Val., c. iii), Clement (Strom. 7.7.43–46), Ambrose’ De Mysteriis, (Myst. 2.7), Augustine of Hippo, Augustine, Sermon on the Mount 2.5.18, John Damascene, Three Treatises on the Divine Images 2.16. We can see that what Pope Leo 1 rebukes seems to be very similar as what is mentioned by the earlier and later church fathers. Even Augustine says - "It is done so that the mind may be admonished to turn toward God while its body is turned toward a heavenly body. You say - "Leo is also talking about specifically bowing (an indication of worship) rather than Christians who pray facing a certain direction." When Christians worship / pray towards the East they bow - I recently learned that the word worship means bow down both in greek and hebrew I think. 1. Greek: proskuneó: To worship, to bow down, to prostrate oneself https://biblehub.com/greek/4352.htm https://biblehub.com/luke/4-8.htm .................................. 2. Hebrew - shachah: To bow down, to prostrate oneself, to worship. https://biblehub.com/hebrew/7812.htm So Christians worship towards the East, (bow down) when praying even physical bowing down is often made in prayer. Nr 2. You say - "2. For the denominations where churches face east, it is done for traditional reasons that are associated with facing Jerusalem, not with facing the rising sun." (We will look at the church father bellow) Where do you have this from, why Jerusalem? John 4:21? I hear this for first time. Today they say that Christ will come from East, but this is later interpretation of the worship towards the East, I have yet not found a single ancient church father mentioning this before John Damascus who is very late. You say - "not with facing the rising sun" - The church fathers connect the east with Christ the true light that they connect to the rising sun. (sun's rising, prayers are made looking towards the sunrise in the east.) (Clement of Alexandria, Strom. 7.7.43–46;) And the very strange part is - “Whence also the most ancient temples looked towards the west.” (These temples are most likely the pagan - God had only one temple and it did not look West, but East - entrance from East, praying towards the West - in the Old Testament while in the Temple in Jerusalem towards the Holy of Holies facing West) (Clement of Alexandria, Strom. 7.7.43–46;) Modern churches are not relevant because today everyone does what they want, many things have changed. I am looking only at the ancient churches and the ancient times before 9 c.AD. It seems that most Christians today are not like Christians in the past, America is relatively new. "This doesn't sound much like it is covert worship of the rising sun." - (below we will look at the church fathers). Nr. 3. I have heard about the subject of ad orientem vs versus populum. But this is different in my opinion, it is about the priest. My question is about the prayer, worship towards the east by the people as is commanded in "the apostolic constitutions". The private prayer and the prayer in the church. In this case if pope Leo 1 faced the people in Liturgy he may have prayed towards the East, but this is because the building is oriented this way, but it seems that many ancient churches in Rome have different directions, North, South, East, West if he was performing Liturgy in one of them and facing the people he may not have prayed towards the East besides the East entrance orientation. The apostolic constitutions say - (Sources say condemned as heretical Quinisext Council and Galician Decree, but John Damascus accepts it as canonical, does this make John Damascus heretic, according to the councils, but that is another question?) And first, indeed, let the building be long, with its head to the east, with its vestries on both sides at the east end; and so it will be like a ship… After this, let all rise up with one consent, and, looking towards the east, after the catechumens and the penitents are gone out, pray to God eastward, who ascended up to the heaven of heavens to the east; remembering also the ancient situation of paradise in the east, whence the first man, when he had yielded to the persuasion of the serpent, and disobeyed the command of God, was expelled. (The apostolic constitutions Chapter LVII) https://ldsfocuschrist2.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/apostolic-constitutions-william-whiston.pdf Nr. 4. You say - "4. There is no kind of uniform practice to pray facing the east.". (Probably not today, after the many reformations of the catholic church, but this is not the case for the orthodox church even today.) Today they are not so harsh as it was once, especially catholics changed a lot through the ages. "there is no rule or requirement to face east when praying" - actually if we look at the church fathers there is a rule, and if you reject this rule you are even under anathema according to the 7 ecumenical council - "If anyone rejects any written or unwritten tradition of the church, let him be anathema." https://www.papalencyclicals.net/councils/ecum07.htm The worship towards the East is an unwritten tradition, John Damascus mentions this. "it would be ridiculous to ban praying to the east (given that there are a limited number of directions to pray in) just because a tiny number of people think it might be related to sun-worship." I have not met such people yet that claim such things. But what do you think about - to tell people to worship towards the east as the pagans did and if they do not do that (reject) they are under anathema. I find it a problem when they say - pray only to the East. Not against praying towards the East, the problem is praying only towards the East thinking that we are looking at the true light (Origen), the radiant East that figure of Christ (Tertullian) while we are looking at heavenly body (Augustine). As the pagans did. Even Jerome says - “the Lord, as the Lord Himself commanded through Moses (Deut. XII), that they should not worship God against the east in the manner of the Gentiles” although I am not exactly sure if Jereome also prayed towards the East. 1. Tertullian about the pagans - But you, many of you, also under pretence sometimes of worshipping the heavenly bodies, move your lips in the direction of the sunrise. (Tertullian, Apol. 16.11)(Tertullian, Ad nat. 1.13;) https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0301.htm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apologeticus#:~:text=Apologeticus%2C%20his%20most%20famous%20apologetic,2nd%20centuries%20had%20been%20convicted . https://www.tertullian.org/works/ad_nationes.htm https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/03061.htm 2.Tertullian (c. 155 – c. 220 AD) - (Probably church orientation - (how simple is the very home!— always in high and open places, and facing the light!)) "of our dove", as he terms them, are always in "high and open places, facing the light" (Tertullian Adv. Val., c. iii), the "house of our dove" (a metaphor for the church) Of our dove, however, how simple is the very home!— always in high and open places, and facing the light! As the symbol of the Holy Spirit, it loves the (radiant) East, that figure of Christ. Nothing causes truth a blush, except only being hidden, because no man will be ashamed to give ear thereto. (Tertullian Adv. Val., c. iii), https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0314.htm https://ccel.org/ccel/tertullian/against_valentinians/anf03.v.vi.i.html 3.(198 AD–c. 203 AD) Clement of Alexandria (c.150-215 AD)(Stromata written c. 198 AD–c. 203 AD) - considered gnostic by himself - And since the dawn is an image of the day of birth, and from that point the light which has shone forth at first from the darkness increases, there has also dawned on those involved in darkness a day of the knowledge of truth. In correspondence with the manner of the sun's rising, prayers are made looking towards the sunrise in the east. Whence also the most ancient temples looked towards the west,(Pagan temples?) that people might be taught to turn to the east when facing the images. (What images? The sun? (But it is in plural)(De architecture mentions the image, the idol (De architectura libri decem 4.5.1)?)) "Let my prayer be directed before Thee as incense, the uplifting of my hands as the evening sacrifice," say the Psalms. ... But the Gnostic will ask... (Clement of Alexandria, Strom. 7.7.43–46;) https://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/clement-stromata-book7.html https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/02107.htm 4. (c. 185 – c. 253 AD) Origen of Alexandria - (Unknown date) Of the four directions, the North, South, East, and West, who would not at once admit that the East clearly indicates the duty of praying with the face turned towards it with the symbolic suggestion that the soul is looking upon the dawn of the true light?(τοῦ ἀληθινοῦ φωτὸς ἀνατολῇ). Origen, On Prayer (Unknown date). (Origen. 32).44 Origen, On Prayer, Part 3 - Origen, Origen: Prayer, Exhortation to Martyrdom, ed. by Johannes Quasten and Joseph C. Plumpe, trans. by John J. O’Meara, Ancient Christian Writers (New York; Mahwah, NJ: Newman Press, 1954), XIX https://www.ecatholic2000.com/fathers/origen.shtml https://www.tertullian.org/fathers/origen_on_prayer_02_text.htm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origen https://gnosis.study/library/%D0%93%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B7%D0%B8%D1%81/+%20%D0%9D%D0%B5%20%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BA%D0%BE%20%D0%BE%20%D0%B3%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B7%D0%B8%D1%81%D0%B5/ENG/Early%20Christian%20Prayer%20and%20Identity%20Formation.pdf 5.(Maybe before 238 - 244 AD (Maybe 220 - 230 AD in Alexandria?)) Origen of Alexandria (c. 185 – c. 253 AD) “The fact that we kneel to pray, for instance, and that of all the quarters of the heavens, the east is the only direction we turn to when we pour out prayer, the reasons for this, I think, are not easily discovered by anyone.” Origen (185-253 AD) Homily on Numbers 2:1-34 https://www.stpatricksvictor.org/wp-content/uploads/FAQ-Ad-orientem.pdf https://vdoc.pub/download/homilies-on-numbers-656uqi23omg0 https://books.google.bg/books/about/Homilies_on_Numbers.html?id=P4pPyRXeWkUC&redir_esc=y https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origen 6. 11. (c. 185 – c. 253 AD) Origen of Alexandria (Similar to Clement of Alexandria, Strom. 7.7.43–46;) It is not without interest that by the blood of a bullock is sprinkled in the eastern direction. Because from the east came the reconciliation for you. From there is a man called outgoing, who became a mediator between God and the people. You are also invited to look always to the east, where is the rising Sun of justice and where is anytime the light yield for you. So that you should never walk in the darkness and the last day shouldn’t catch you in the darkness. (Origen - Homily on the Third book of Moses) (Origen - Homilies on Leviticus) https://dokumen.pub/homilies-on-leviticus-1-16-fathers-of-the-church-0813200830-9780813200835.html https://books.google.bg/books?id=Eo9Da7xaBuUC&printsec=frontcover&redir_esc=y#v=snippet&q=%20from%20the%20east&f=false 7.(330-379 AD) Basil the great - What writing has taught us to turn to the East at the prayer? … We all look toward the East when we pray; but few know that it is because we are looking for our own former country, Paradise, which God planted in Eden in the East. St. Basil the Great, The Holy Spirit, 27,66 Basil, De Spir. Sancto 27.66; https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3203.htm 8. 16. (c. 339 – 397 AD) Ambrose of Milan Having entered, then, in order to look upon your adversary, who you deemed should be renounced to his face, you turned to the east (ad orientem converteris). For the one who renounces the devil turns to Christ (qui enim renuntiat diabolo, ad Christum convertitur), and he looks upon him directly. Bishop Ambrose’ De Mysteriis, (Myst. 2.7) https://gnosis.study/library/%D0%93%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B7%D0%B8%D1%81/+%20%D0%9D%D0%B5%20%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BA%D0%BE%20%D0%BE%20%D0%B3%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B7%D0%B8%D1%81%D0%B5/ENG/Early%20Christian%20Prayer%20and%20Identity%20Formation.pdf 9.(354 - 430 AD) Augustine of Hippo - For the purpose of signifying this truth, when we stand at prayer we face the East, where the rise of the heavens begins. This is not to signify that God is dwelling there, as though He had forsaken the other parts of the world—for God is present everywhere, not in habitations of place but in power of majesty. It is done so that the mind may be admonished to turn toward God while its body is turned toward a heavenly body. For, just as the heavenly body is higher than the earthly one, so God is a higher substance than the human mind. Augustine of Hippo, Augustine, Sermon on the Mount 2.5.18 https://documentacatholicaomnia.eu/03d/0354-0430,_Augustinus,_De_Sermone_Domini_In_Monte_Secundum_Matthaeum_[Schaff],_EN.pdf https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/16012.htm 10. (c. 342–347 – 420 AD) Jerome - commentary on Ezekiel 8:16 (That it was forbidden to worship towards East as the pagans) They did this because they despised the Lord, that is, the Creator, and worshipped the sun, that is, the creature of the Lord, as the Lord Himself commanded through Moses (Deut. XII), that they should not worship God against the east in the manner of the Gentiles: but wherever they were in the world, whether to the east, or to the west, or to the south, or to the north, they should worship toward the temple, where it was believed the Lord dwelled in the Holy of Holies. Jerome commentary on Ezekiel 8:1 https://historicalchristian.faith/by_father.php?file=Jerome%2FCommentary%2520on%2520Ezekiel.html https://azbyka.ru/biblia/in/?Ezek.8:16&r 11. c. AD 675/676 - 749 AD) John of Damascus un of Righteousness Malachi 4:2 and Dayspring , the East is the direction that must be assigned to His worship. (Deuteronomy 4:19, Deuteronomy 12:31) ..... For everything good must be assigned to Him from Whom every good thing arises. ..... So, then, in expectation of His coming we worship towards the East. .... But this tradition of the apostles is unwritten. For much that has been handed down to us by tradition is unwritten. Chapter 12. Concerning Worship towards the East. All together: always in high and open places, and facing the light! As the symbol of the Holy Spirit, it loves the (radiant) East, that figure of Christ the sun's rising, prayers are made looking towards the sunrise in the east. Whence also the most ancient temples looked towards the west,(Pagan temples?) that people might be taught to turn to the east when facing the images. the symbolic suggestion that the soul is looking upon the dawn of the true light You are also invited to look always to the east, where is the rising Sun of justice and where is anytime the light yield for you. you turned to the east...turns to Christ...looks upon him directly (The sun) we stand at prayer we face the East, where the rise of the heavens begins It is done so that the mind may be admonished to turn toward God while its body is turned toward a heavenly body. the Lord Himself commanded through Moses (Deut. XII), that they should not worship God against the east in the manner of the Gentiles (Jerome) the East is the direction that must be assigned to His worship For everything good must be assigned to Him from Whom every good thing arises. few know that it is because we are looking for our own former country, Paradise, which God planted in Eden in the East. the reasons for this, I think, are not easily discovered by anyone :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: We stand at prayer we face the East, where the rise of the heavens begins ...facing the light! As the symbol of the Holy Spirit, it loves the (radiant) East, that figure of Christ...while its body is turned toward a heavenly body...you turned to the east...to Christ...looks upon him directly...look always to the east, where is the rising Sun of justice... ...that the soul is looking upon the dawn of the true light... In correspondence with the manner of the sun's rising, prayers are made looking towards the sunrise in the east. Whence also the most ancient temples looked towards the west,(Pagan temples?) that people might be taught to turn to the east when facing the images....the East is the direction that must be assigned to His worship…...but few know.....the reasons for this, I think, are not easily discovered by anyone...But this tradition of the apostles is unwritten. Is it not strange that pope Leo does not mention a very similar practice that is done by the church. Why does he rebuke them if exactly the same is made by the church fathers? He could at least mentions this and defend the practice of the church and clarify why he rebukes them. Probably this may have not been practiced globally as it has become later? I think that it is important to mention that I have yet not found any ancient church fathers mentioning the second coming from the East as the reason for worshiping towards the East. This is mentioned in the didascalia apostolorum, apostolic constitutions (not exactly), John Damascus, all of whom are from Syria. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ @SLM - Answer 2: You mention Augustine 354-430: He says - (354 - 430 AD) Augustine of Hippo - For the purpose of signifying this truth, when we stand at prayer we face the East, where the rise of the heavens begins. This is not to signify that God is dwelling there, as though He had forsaken the other parts of the world—for God is present everywhere, not in habitations of place but in power of majesty. It is done so that the mind may be admonished to turn toward God while its body is turned toward a heavenly body. For, just as the heavenly body is higher than the earthly one, so God is a higher substance than the human mind. Augustine of Hippo, Augustine, Sermon on the Mount 2.5.18 https://documentacatholicaomnia.eu/03d/0354-0430,_Augustinus,_De_Sermone_Domini_In_Monte_Secundum_Matthaeum_[Schaff],_EN.pdf https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/16012.htm Pope Leo 1 Says - The foolish practice of some who turn to the sun and bow to it is reprehensible... the ungodly practice of certain foolish folk who worship the sun as it rises...even some Christians think it is so proper to do this...because although some of them do perhaps worship the Creator of that fair light rather than the Light itself, which is His creature, yet we must abstain even from the appearance of this observance: Augustine says - when we stand at prayer we face the East, where the rise of the heavens begins...It is done so that the mind may be admonished to turn toward God while its body is turned toward a heavenly body. Clement of Alexandria says: “the sun's rising, prayers are made looking towards the sunrise in the east.” (Clement of Alexandria, Strom. 7.7.43–46;) “abstain even from the appearance of this observance” but still do it in the church and home? You mention - (The key phrase is "elevated positions". - High places were originally dedicated to idol worship (Numbers 33:52; Leviticus 26:30), especially among the Moabites (Isaiah 16:12).) Tertullian mentions this: - "always in high and open places, and facing the light! As the symbol of the Holy Spirit, it loves the (radiant) East, that figure of Christ." (Tertullian Adv. Val., c. iii) .(After 207 AD?)Tertullian (c. 155 – c. 220 AD) - (Probably church orientation - (how simple is the very home!— always in high and open places, and facing the light!)) "of our dove", as he terms them, are always in "high and open places, facing the light" (Tertullian Adv. Val., c. iii), the "house of our dove" (a metaphor for the church) ...................................... Of our dove, however, how simple is the very home!— always in high and open places, and facing the light! As the symbol of the Holy Spirit, it loves the (radiant) East, that figure of Christ. Nothing causes truth a blush, except only being hidden, because no man will be ashamed to give ear thereto. (Tertullian Adv. Val., c. iii), https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0314.htm https://ccel.org/ccel/tertullian/against_valentinians/anf03.v.vi.i.html From these answers I learn that this tradition is even more tightly related to the pagan tradition?

When I ask this question I usually end up getting the response of: > “Well, that was just him giving us free will!” And then I ask why he would give us free will if he knew we would sin and would send us to Hell. Which gets the response of: > “Well, he didn’t want us to be robots! That would just be awful.” Then this goes on and on. What I’m trying to ask is: why did God give us the ability to sin if he would get so mad at us that he would send us to Hell? Why did God make Satan if he knew he would tempt Adam and Eve? Honestly why even make Satan in the first place?

Is the Feast of the Annunciation a feast of Our Lady, of Our Lord, or both? According to *Fasti Mariani* p. 45 , it's called variously the: - Conception of Christ - Annunciation of Christ - Incarnation of the Lord - Beginning of Redemption - Annunciation of the Angel [Gabriel] to Mary It's called the Conception of Our Lord, in the Byzantine Liturgy .

In Revelation 7:3-4, God seals His servants before the tribulation begins. Since pre-tribulationists believe the rapture occurs before the tribulation, how do you interpret the sealing of God’s servants? Does this sealing take place before or after the rapture, and how does it align with the pre-tribulation timeline of Christ’s return?

I have heard the title "Mother of God" in connection with the "Hail Mary" prayer that(Ave Maria) is recited by Catholics. However, I have never heard this term used in any Protestant setting. (From the comment by Bobo, we find that the Orthodox also refer to Mary in this way; *Theotokos* in Greek literally means "Birth-giver of God", as well as *Bohoroditza* in Russian. Both of these terms are widely used in their respective Orthodox groups). Why, then, do Protestants not use this title that appears to be so common in Catholicism?

### Background *Sola Scriptura* is commonly defined as follows > **The Bible is the sole infallible source of authority for faith** (alternatively doctrine) **and practice.** Protestant discussions about the scriptural basis for *Sola Scriptura* nearly always involve 2 Timothy 3:16 and other NT verses, but I have not seen Protestants argue for for *Sola Scriptura* on the basis of the Hebrew Bible. ### Question Do Protestants believe the Hebrew Bible/Old Testament taught *Sola Scriptura* prior to the advent of Christianity and the writing of the New Testament? If so, which passages teach this? If not, how do they explain this doctrine only being introduced by the New Testament?

Nursing Madonna / The milk giver icon tradition - 1. Is this apostolic according to the catholic and orthodox church? - comparing to 2 Thessalonians 2:15 for the unwritten traditions.() > **2 Thessalonians 2:15** > Therefore, brethren, **stand fast, and hold the > traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word**, or our epistle. (**stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word**) is often pointed to by Catholics and Orthodox as the apostles teaching unwritten traditions. ------------------------- **Is a person condemned by the 7 ecumenical council if not accepting this practice according to the church?** > If anyone does not confess that Christ our God can be represented in > his humanity, let him be anathema. If anyone does not accept > representation in art of evangelical scenes, let him be anathema. If > anyone does not salute such representations as standing for the Lord > and his saints, let him be anathema. **If anyone rejects any written or > unwritten tradition of the church, let him be anathema.** > > https://www.papalencyclicals.net/councils/ecum07.htm The 7 ecumenical council condemns every person that does not accept any written on unwritten tradition, this traditions of the nursing Madonna is not written in the scripture, it must be considered unwritten tradition. It seems that this tradition can be found in the catholic, eastern orthodox and the oriental orthodox churches. -------------------------------------------------------------- **(Content notice: This post contains depictions of partial nudity.)** **Pagan similarities:** **It is worth to mentioning that there are several similarities with the pagan traditions only in this single icon, this is what bothers me, how will Orthodox or Catholics explain these similarities:** 1. The nursing Madonna - Same as Isis nursing Horus. 2. Holding child - same as Isis holding Horus. 3. The title queen of heaven - same as Isis. - ((The golden ass - Book XI)) 4. The child is connected to the physical sun - same as Horus. 5. The child is born on the winter solstice when the days begin to get longer. - same as the child Isis holds Horus - (Plutarch, On Isis and Osiris, ISIS AND OSIRIS, 377 )(The winter solstice - (Natural history 18.221)) 6. Halo behind the head as the pagan tradition for the idols. ------------------------------------------ 1. and 2. **The nursing Mdona or “Galaktotrophousa” (Γαλακτοτροφουσα, meaning “the Milk-Giver”) unwritten tradition of the Eastern Orthodox Church:** > The specific Icon **celebrated** on July 3 (and January 12) **dates from the > 6th century A.D.** and resided in St. Sabbas’ lavra (a type of monastic > community). Before his death, St Sabbas prophetically stated that in > time a pilgrim sharing the saint’s name, of royal lineage from Serbia, > would visit, and to him the Icon of the Mother of God, the > “Milk-Giver”, should be given as a blessing from the Monastery. God’s > time is not like our time, and so it was not until 700 years later > that the prophecy was fulfilled. The pilgrim was the Serbian prince > Rastko Nemanjić, who had taken the monastic name “Sava” (i.e. Sabbas) > when a youth. https://iconreader.wordpress.com/2011/07/03/milk-giver-icon-not-scandalized-by-the-incarnation/ > The iconographic type of the Virgin Milk-Feeder is rooted in the > Gospel narrative of Jesus Christ's birth (Matthew 2) and the verse: > «Blessed is the womb that bore You, and **the breasts which nursed You!**» > **(Luke 11:27)**. https://www.monastiriaka.gr/en/blog/panagia-galaktotrophousa-the-virgin-lactans-or-milk-nursing > **Luke 11:28** > > He replied, **“Blessed rather are those who hear the > word of God and obey it.”** > > https://biblehub.com/luke/11-28.htm ------------------------------------------------- **3. The title queen of heaven for Isis:** >“O blessed Queen of Heaven, > whether you are the Lady Ceres who is…” **> - Lucius’ Prayer for the Assistance of Isis (The golden ass - Book XI) “Most holy and everlasting, blessed Lady” - Lucius’ Prayer of Thanks** > http://www.societasviaromana.net/Collegium_Religionis/isis.php > https://ia801200.us.archive.org/15/items/TheGoldenAss_201509/TheGoldenAsspenguinClassics-Apuleius.pdf **3.1 Queen of heaven Eastern Orthodox prayer:** > Rejoice, queen of Heaven and earth Who dost open unto us the gates of > Paradise! https://orthodox-europe.org/english/liturgics/prayers/akathist-joy-of-all-who-sorrow/ **3.2 Ancient church father on the title queen of heaven for Saint Mary:** **Epiphanius of Salamis c. 375 AD:** > the holy Virgin is anything more [than a woman], he called her “Woman” > as if by prophecy, because of the schisms and sects.... ....... the > error which has arisen on St. Mary’s account.... preparing the table > for the demon25 and not for God..... even though Mary is all fair, and > is holy and held in honor, she is not to be worshiped..... Such women > **should be silenced by Jeremiah, and not frighten the world. They must > not say, “We honor the queen of heaven**.”... > > > **Ephiphanius of Salamis - Panarion - against collyridians 8** > > Page 644 in the pdf > https://ia800501.us.archive.org/18/items/EpiphaniusPanarionBksIIIII1/Epiphanius%20-%20_Panarion_%20-%20Bks%20II%20%26%20III%20-%201.pdf **Sources about - Epiphanius and the other church leaders:** Надо отметить, что Епифаний Кипрский занимался поиском различных христианских исторических сочинений при написании своих книг, а также был знаком и общался лично практически со всеми предстоятелями поместных христианских церквей. **Translated to English:** It should be noted that Epiphanius of Cyprus was engaged in searching for various Christian historical works when writing his books, and was also acquainted with and communicated personally with almost all the heads of the local Christian churches. https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1%D0%B2%D1%8F%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BE_%D0%98%D0%BE%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%BD%D0%B0_%D0%91%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B0_%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%B7%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B5_%D0%BE%D0%B1_%D1%83%D1%81%D0%BF%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B8_%D0%A1%D0%B2%D1%8F%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%B9_%D0%91%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%B8%D1%86%D1%8B ------------------------------ **4. From some church fathers we learn about the praying towards the East and it seems that the physical sun is connected somehow to the true light. Christ the Creator of that light (the sun) as Pope Leo 1 says:** (Short quotes from different church fathers - Clement of Alexandria, Origen, Tertullian, Basil the great, Ambrose, Augustine, John Damascus ... and pope Leo 1 about very similar tradition that he refutes) > We stand at prayer we face the East, where the rise of the heavens > begins ...facing the light! As the symbol of the Holy Spirit, it loves > the (radiant) East, that figure of Christ...while its body is turned > toward a heavenly body...you turned to the east...to Christ...looks > upon him directly...look always to the east, where is the rising Sun > of justice... ...that the soul is looking upon the dawn of the true > light...In correspondence with the manner of the sun's rising, prayers > are made looking towards the sunrise in the east. Whence also the most > ancient temples looked towards the west,(Pagan temples?) that people > might be taught to turn to the east when facing the images....the East > is the direction that must be assigned to His worship…...but few > know.....the reasons for this, I think, are not easily discovered by > anyone...But this tradition of the apostles is unwritten. https://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/109124/pope-leo-i-and-worshiping-towards-the-east-how-can-he-say-all-this-and-still-w **Pope Leo 1 seems to be against this practice, also the most ancient churches in Rome seems to be not oriented with entrances from West so people to be able to pray towards the East:** > The foolish practice of some who turn to the sun and bow to it is > reprehensible > > such a system of teaching proceeds also the ungodly practice of > certain foolish folk who worship the sun as it rises > > even some Christians think it is so proper to do this > > We are full of grief and vexation that this should happen, which is > partly due to the fault of ignorance and partly to the spirit of > heathenism: > > because although some of them do perhaps worship the Creator of that > fair light rather than the Light itself, which is His creature, > > yet we must abstain even from the appearance of this observance: > > for if one who has abandoned the worship of gods, finds it in our own > worship, will he not hark back again to this fragment of his old > superstition, > > as if it were allowable, when he sees it to be common both to > Christians and to infidels? (The apostle is saying similar thing - 2 > Cor. 6:15) From Sermon XXVII (c. 450 AD) of Pope Leo I https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/360327.htm **The apostle:** > **2 Cor. 6:15** And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? > > **Romans 1:25** Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is > blessed for ever. Amen. -------------------------------------------------- ----------------------- **5. The winter solstice birthday of Horus - 25 December for the roman times? Also celebrating the conception 9 months before the birth:** > Thus we shall attack the many boring people who find pleasure in > associating the activities of these gods with the seasonal changes of > the atmosphere or with the growths, sowing, and plowing of crops, and > who say that Osiris is being buried when the corn is sown and hidden > in the earth, and that he lives again and reappears when it begins to > sprout. For this reason it is said that Isis, when she was aware of > her being pregnant, put on a protective amulet on the sixth day of > Phaophi, **and at the winter solstice gave birth to Harpocrates,** > imperfect and prematurely born, amid plants that burgeoned and > sprouted before their season . . . **and they are said to celebrate the > days of her confinement after the spring equinox.** > > **(Plutarch, On Isis and Osiris, ISIS AND OSIRIS, 377 )** https://archive.org/stream/plutarch-isis-osiris-loeb/Plutarch_Isis_Osiris_Loeb_djvu.txt https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A2008.01.0239%3Asection%3D65 -------------------------------------------------------------- **5.1 About the winter solstice on 25 December, by ancient writings:** **(Today the winter solstice is around 21-22 December - but for the romans it seems to be 25 December)** **From sources:** https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b5/The_natural_history_of_Pliny_1855.pdf > Roman writers regularly quote the date of the solstice as the 25th of > December. > > **Columella, a 1st century CE agricultural writer, on the subject (De > re rustica 9.14.12):** > > ab occasu Vergiliarum ad brumam, quae fere conficitur **circa VIII > kalendas Ianuarii** in octava parte Capricorni ... > > From the setting of the Pleiades to midwinter, which occurs roughly > **around the 8th day before the kalends of January** (i.e. 25 December), > at 8° in Capricorn ... > > > > **Pliny the Elder, also 1st cent. CE (Natural history 18.221):** > > ... omnesque eae differentiae fiunt in octavis partibus signorum, > bruma Capricorni **a. d. VIII kal. Ian.** fere. > > ... and all these changes occur at 8° in the (zodiacal) signs, the > winter solstice in Capricorn on roughly **the 8th day before the kalends > of January** (i.e. 25 December). > https://kiwihellenist.blogspot.com/2015/12/christmas-and-its-supposed-pagan-links.html > > > > http://novaroma.org/nr/Roman_dates#Table_of_Dates > > Table about 25 - http://novaroma.org/nr/Roman_dates#Table_of_Dates http://novaroma.org/nr/Roman_dates#Table_of_Dates -------------------------------------------- **6. The halo on the icons as the pagan tradition for the "gods":** ------------------------------------- https://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/112600/do-the-catholic-orthodox-believe-that-the-halo-is-apostolic-unwritten-traditio https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9C%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BF%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%86%D0%B0 https://mount-athos.org/en/mount-athos/icons-relics/galaktotrofousa-hilandar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nursing_Madonna https://folia.unifr.ch/documents/306232/files/Bacci_2007pisabizantina.pdf https://es.pinterest.com/pin/612348880621533991/ https://russianicons.wordpress.com/2016/06/23/the-nursing-goddess-from-isis-to-mary/ https://www.academia.edu/113383765/Veiling_and_Head_Covering_in_Late_Antiquity_Between_Ideology_Aesthetics_and_Practicality https://iconreader.wordpress.com/2011/07/03/milk-giver-icon-not-scandalized-by-the-incarnation/ https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9C%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BF%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%86%D0%B0 https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/article/jesus-portrayals -------------------------------------------- Date 7th-6th centuries B.C. https://www.mfab.hu/artworks/1812/ Isis lactans (Isis nursing Harpocrates). Marble, approximately one and a half meters high. Vatican Museums, Pio Clementino Gallery A GRAECO-EGYPTIAN TERRACOTTA ISIS AND HARPOCRATES CIRCA 2ND-1ST CENTURY B.C. https://www.christies.com/lot/a-graeco-egyptian-terracotta-isis-and-harpocrates-circa-5546815/?intobjectid=5546815&lid=1 Roman terracotta statuette of Isis lactans, from Herculaneum 1st c. CE Soprintendenza Pompei, inv. 76724 Photographed on display in the exhibition "Il Nilo a Pompeii: visioni d'Egitto nel mondo romano" (The Nile at Pompeii: visions of Egypt in the Roman world) at the Museo Egizio in Torino, Piemonte, Italy.... https://www.flickr.com/photos/dandiffendale/30258001226 Statuette, Isis, Horus 664–30 B.C. Julia Domna, AR denarius, Rome mint. IVLIA DOMNA AVG, draped bust right / FECVNDITAS, Fecunditas seated right, holding one child in her arms and and another standing at her feet. RIC 534; RSC 42. https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/ric/julia_domna/t.html All this is from sources on the internet, I can not guarantee how accurate it is.

According to the catholic and orthodox, is this apostolic unwritten tradition or adopted pagan tradition as mentioned by newadvent website? If it is adopted pagan tradition, then this means that other pagan traditions could be incorporated in the church? Do they fall under the anathema of the 7 ecumenical council, since these traditions are unwritten? If this is the case, would there be apostolic unwritten traditions and pagan unwritten traditions in the church as unwritten traditions? How should this be understood? ------------------------------------------- > **Second Council of Nicaea – 787 A.D. ( 7th ecumenical council):** > >If anyone rejects any written or unwritten tradition of the church, let > him be anathema. - [Second Council of Nicaea – 787 A.D.](https://www.papalencyclicals.net/councils/ecum07.htm) > **2 Thessalonians 2:15** > >Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and **hold the traditions** which ye have been taught, **whether by word, or our epistle**. > >https://biblehub.com/2_thessalonians/2-15.htm ---------------------------------------- > > **1 Corinthians 4:6** > >Now these things, brothers, I have applied to > myself and Apollos for your sakes, **so that in us you may learn not to > go beyond what is written**, so that no one of you will become puffed up > on behalf of one against the other. > > https://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/4-6.htm --------------------------------------- > **2 Cor 6:14-18** > >14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with > unbelievers: **for what fellowship hath righteousness with > unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 15 And > what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that > believeth with an infidel? 16 And what agreement hath the temple of > God with idols?** for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath > said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, > and they shall be my people. **17 Wherefore come out from among them, > and be ye separate,** saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; > and I will receive you. 18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall > be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. ---------------------------------------------- > **Deut. 12:30-31** > >30 **Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them**, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and > that thou inquire not after their gods, **saying, How did these nations > serve their gods? even so will I do likewise. 31 Thou shalt not do so > unto the LORD thy God:** **for every abomination to the LORD, which he > hateth, have they done unto their gods;** for even their sons and their > daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods. -------------------------------------------- This information is from the internet, I can not guarantee how accurate it is. But it seems that most if not all fake "gods" had halos before the Christian iconography? **Pagan:** **(Content notice: This post contains depictions of nudity that may be visible on the photos of the pagan mosaics.)** (2nd c. AD) Dionysos, Nike & Maenad (Bakche) - Zeugma mosaic - Triumph of Dionysus (Gaziantep Museum - Turkey) This pavement comes from the House of Poseidon. 1.https://www.flickr.com/photos/28433765@N07/50616496196 2.https://pbase.com/dosseman/dionysostriumf 3.https://pbase.com/dosseman/image/170042225 4.https://pbase.com/dosseman/daedalus ---------------------------------------------- (Naked!) (circa 3rd-4th c. AD.) A ROMAN MARBLE MOSAIC PANEL Depicting the goddess Venus rising from the sea, supported by two tritons, both with a human torso, equine legs and a fish-tailed lower body, the goddess haloed, holding a mirror in her left hand and a cosmetic applicator in her right, nude but for a mantle wrapped around her hips and legs, coiled bracelets on each wrist, a fish in the lower corners. 1.https://tr.pinterest.com/pin/1121607482184251399/ 2.https://www.christies.com/en/lot/lot-1818486 --------------------------------------------------------------- (3rd - 4th century) Mosaic from the House of Menander with Zeus. Room 20, Panel A (Seattle Art Museum) - (Daphne, suburb of Antioch, Antakya) (limestone and marble tesserae) 1.https://www.bridgemanimages.com/en/roman/mosaic-from-the-house-of-menander-with-zeus-3rd-4th-century-limestone-and-marble-tesserae/limestone-and-marble-tesserae/asset/6348234 2.https://antiochmuseumofart.org/house-of-menander/ 3.https://www.flickr.com/photos/mharrsch/22214048901/in/pool-ancient_mosaics_in_turkey/ https://www.meisterdrucke.ie/similar/943506.html ------------------------------------------------ (2nd-3rd c. AD,) Roman mosaic showing Apollo and Daphne, (Princeton University Art Museum) --------------------------------------------------------------- (Naked)“The Triumph of Neptune,” a late 2nd century CE mosaic from La Chebba, Tunisia. The central scene depicts a bearded Neptune riding in a chariot pulled by sea horses; he is flanked by his sons Triton and Proteus. The corners of the mosaic feature women and agricultural scenes representing the four seasons. As bringer and withholder of water, Neptune would have held agency over seasonal change. Bardo National Museum, Tunis, Tunisia https://mythopedia.com/topics/neptune/ https://smarthistory.org/mosaic-decoration-at-the-hammath-tiberias-synagogue/ --------------------------------------------------------------- (Naked) One of the mosaic panels located in the museum of the city of Shebha in southern Syria. Each panel recounts ancient Greek myths introduced by the Romans in the mid-third century AD. This panel depicts Aphrodite and Oris, the goddess of beauty. The panel depicts women and the goddess of love competing to win the weapons of the goddess Oris. The panel is decorated with inscriptions, ornaments, and numerous aesthetic motifs that illustrate the myth. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shahba ------------------------------------------------------------------- (123 AD) Roman mosaic of Hunting goddess Diana found in the (baths of Oceanus at Sabratha built in 123 AD) https://x.com/libyanhistory/status/873175058302324736 https://caffetteriadellemore.forumcommunity.net/?t=47244810 https://www.temehu.com/Cities_sites/museum-of-sabratha.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------- (Naked) Triumph of Poseidon and Amphitrite, showing the couple in procession. Detail of a large Roman mosaic from Cirta, Roman Africa (c. 315–325 AD, now at the Louvre) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neptune_%28mythology%29 ---------------------------------------------------- Hatay Archaeological Museum, Antakya, Turkey. Artemis, the fierce goddess of the hunt This mosaic of Artemis was discovered in the ancient city of Issus. It was found in the tepidarium of a bathhouse in the city. The 43-square-meter mosaic floor dates from Late Antiquity (3rd and 4th centuries AD). At the center of the mosaic is the goddess Artemis, ruler of the wild, and around her are figures of animals and plants. https://chroniquescynegetiques.com/2024/10/03/artemis-la-farouche-deesse-de-la-chasse/ -------------------------------------------------------- (Naked) Aion enthroned, holding a zodiac wheel in his right hand, a scepter in his left, his head surrounded by a holo or aura [3rd cent AD] - Arles, Musée de l'Arles antique - wm Aion (Greek: Αἰών) is a Hellenistic deity associated with time, the orb or circle encompassing the universe, and the zodiac. The "time" represented by Aion is unbounded, in contrast to Chronos as empirical time divided into past, present, and future. He is thus a god of eternity, associated with mystery religions concerned with the afterlife, such as the mysteries of Cybele, Dionysus, Orpheus, and Mithras. Source: wikipedia en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aion_(deity) --------------------------------------------------- A grand mosaic of Isis and Serapis, Roman early 3rd century https://www.pinterest.com/pin/341288477982180030/ Roman mosaic depicting Isis and Serapis (3rd cent. AD) https://the-avocado.org/2018/03/05/navigium-isidis-an-ancient-religious-festival/ https://medium.com/@ancient.rome/why-are-greek-roman-and-norse-mythologies-so-similar-8bb530da993c Emperor Septimius Severus (193–211 AD) as Serapis and his wife Julia Domna as Isis on a mosaic from Huwara, Egypt. Altes Museum, Berlin. Early 3rd century AD. https://www.augustaraurica.ch/assets/content/files/publikationen/Magazin-AR/AR-2017_2_Isis-Fortuna_Ruetti.pdf Roman mosaic depicting Isis and Serapis (3rd cent. CE) https://cjapedia.com/happy-navigium-isidis-march-5 ------------------------------------------------------- Niche with a polychrome mosaic of Silvanus Excavated in 1861 in the Palazzo Imperiale, in a room next to the mithraeum. Date: reign of Commodus or Septimius Severus. W. 0.87, h. 1.57, h. of Silvanus 0.71. With text OSTIAE EFFOS ANNO MDCCCLXI. In front of the niche a lamp for two wicks was found, perhaps inv. nr. 625. A relief of Silvanus was found nearby. Inv. nr. 10729. Benndorf-Schöne 1867, nr. 551. Arachne 20773. Photo: SO IV, Tav. 211. https://www.ostia-antica.org/museums/mus-vm-ml-silvanus.htm ------------------------------------------------ **Considered Christian:** (7th c. AD) - (634-730 AD) - Saint Demetrius of Thessaloniki. (Hagios Demetrios - Thessaloniki - Greece). Votive mosaic representation from the 7th century on the northeast pillar of the church. The basilica is famous for six extant mosaic panels, dated to the period between the latest reconstruction and the inauguration of the Byzantine Iconoclasm in 730. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagios_Demetrios https://www.macedonian-heritage.gr/HellenicMacedonia/en/img_C233a.html https://www.flickr.com/photos/60661697@N07/51241589472/in/pool-ancientgreece/ St. Demetrius. 7th century. Basilica of St. Demetrius, Thessaloniki. Mosaics on the pillars at the entrance to the altar and on the western wall of the main nave https://www.icon-art.info/bibliogr_item.php?id=21 https://macedonia.kroraina.com/en/rheb/rheb_mp.htm#1 -------------------------------------------------------- (No beard)(the end of 4th c. AD - the beg. of 5th c. AD) - (Christ)(Church of the Savior of the Latomou Monastery (Church of Hosios David)), (Thessaloniki, Greece). Mosaic with Christ and probably with Saints Peter and Paul on the sides - Lazarev attributes these mosaics to the end of the 5th beginning of the 6th century of the contemporary period to the Theodoric period connecting them to the mosaics of the basilica Sant'Apollinare Nuovo in Ravenna. 1.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Hosios_David 2.https://macedonia.kroraina.com/en/rheb/rheb_mp.htm#1 3.https://ru.pinterest.com/anastasyatatarn/chiesa-del-salvatore-del-monastero-di-latomou-chie/ https://vk.com/photo-35220730_312236388 https://flickr.com/photos/28433765@N07/15338085684/in/pool-2740017@N23/ Jesus Christ in glory. Mosaic in conch apses. End of 5— beginning of 6 th. c AD https://www.pravenc.ru/text/2581611.html https://ru.pinterest.com/pin/223843043962682817/ --------------------------------------- Justinian I AR Light Miliarense. Constantinople mint. Struck 527-537 AD. D N IVSTINIANVS P P AVG, pearl diademed, draped, cuirassed bust left / GLORIA ROMANORVM, Justinian, nimbate, standing facing, head left, raising hand and holding globe; star in right field; mintmark COB. DOC I 26. https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/byz/justinian_I/t.html -------------------------------------------- St. Aquilin Chapel, (4th c. AD ? Beg.of the 5th c. AD) mosaic. (No beard, short hair) https://www.flickr.com/photos/roger_joseph/5417358183/ https://vk.com/photo-35220730_312171522 Christ teaching the Apostles , Late4th century https://art.kunstmatrix.com/en/artwork/1882721/christ-teaching-apostles ------------------------------------------- Angelic Ranks (Dominions and Powers). Mosaic of the 7th century. Church of the Dormition of the Virgin Mary. Nicaea. https://vk.com/photo-35220730_312783865 Heavenly Powers. Mosaic of the Church of the Dormition of the Blessed Virgin Mary. 7th century? (7 c. AD?, 9 c. AD?) (2 sources 7c. AD and 1 source 9.c. AD) (9. C AD) https://azbyka.ru/otechnik/ikona/iskusstvo-vizantii-4-15-vekov/4 (7 c. AD) https://www.icon-art.info/bibliogr_item.php?id=21 https://www.pravenc.ru/text/200147.html ---------------------------------------- Santa Costanza in Rome. End of the 4th c. AD. The Mausoleum of Costanza (Constantina) (VIII) This 4th-century mausoleum was built under Constantine the Great for his daughter Constantina (Costanza), who died in 354 AD. His other daughter, Helena, is also buried here. The mosaics on the ambulatory vaults are an excellent example of late antique and early Christian art. https://vk.com/photo-35220730_312171210 https://www.flickr.com/photos/isawnyu/7556340750 https://www.mediastorehouse.com/search.html?search=ancient+halo ----------------------------------------- Mural painting of Jesus Christ from the catacomb of Commodilla. Rome, late 4th century. The symbols on either side are Alpha and Omega. Remember that the Christ is "beginning and end." Revelation 22, 13: "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last." https://vk.com/photo-35220730_312138059 https://diglib.library.vanderbilt.edu/diglib-fulldisplay.pl?SID=20250124369513274&code=act&RC=49950&Row=109 --------------------------------------------- Mosaic of Orans and Donors (5th-6th century) Church of St. Demetrius - Thessaloniki - Greece. Wall mosaics from the small north colonnade in the Church of St Demetrius Thessaloniki, saved from the fire of 1917, 5th-6th c. Museum of Byzantine Culture, Thessaloniki, Greece https://www.thebyzantinelegacy.com/demetrios-thessaloniki -------------------------------------------- Santa Pudenziana in Rome. 390AD - (401-417) AD The 4th century Basilica di Santa Pudenziana contains some fine mosaics, including this one in its apse. I gather that it is the earliest Christian mosaic to be found anywhere in Rome (it dates from 390). As the excellent Cadogan guide to Rome says, 'artists had yet to decide on the familiar iconography of the saints; here all have become honorary Roman citizens ... in their senatorial togas'. https://vk.com/photo-35220730_312171270 https://www.flickr.com/photos/24151047@N05/47846198011 https://my-passion.blog/2018/11/29/oldest-paintings-of-jesus/ ------------------------------------------------- The Good Shepherd. Mid-5th century. Mausoleum of Galla Placidia, Ravenna. Mosaic in the lunette Лазарев 1986 - История византийской живописи. Т. 2. OCR hires #21.pdf https://www.icon-art.info/bibliogr_item.php?id=21 https://vk.com/photo-35220730_312236302 The Good Shepherd , c 425 AD Mausoleum of Galla Placidia, Ravenna, Italy https://art.kunstmatrix.com/en/artwork/1882044/good-shepherd https://my-passion.blog/2018/11/29/oldest-paintings-of-jesus/ https://byzantinenews.blogspot.com/2014/02/cfp-miracles-and-wonders-in-antiquity.html https://azbyka.ru/otechnik/ikona/iskusstvo-vizantii-4-15-vekov/1 ---------------------------------------------------- Baptism of Christ and the Twelve Apostles. Mid-5th century. Orthodox Baptistery, Ravenna. Mosaics in the dome Лазарев 1986 - История византийской живописи. Т. 2. OCR hires #21.pdf pg. 32 https://www.icon-art.info/bibliogr_item.php?id=21 Domed Mosaic Ceiling , 547 AD Basilica of San Vitale, Ravenna, Italy. https://art.kunstmatrix.com/en/artwork/1882765/domed-mosaic-ceiling Ravenna. Mosaic in Baptistery of Neon. 5th century. Baptism of Jesus. Italy. https://www.alamy.com/ravenna-mosaic-in-baptistery-of-neon-5th-century-baptism-of-jesus-italy-image238557621.html https://www.flickr.com/photos/35409814@N00/11904625526/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/60661697@N07/17795977821/in/pool-1307009@N23/ -------------------------------------------- (River “god”? to left?) Arian Baptistery in Ravenna. Late 5th-early 6th c. AD. Mosaics in the dome https://www.icon-art.info/bibliogr_item.php?id=21 https://www.flickr.com/photos/bobbex/52646912056 https://flickr.com/photos/27305838@N04/15953924945/in/pool-2740017@N23/ ------------------------------------------------------ (Dark skin) 526-530 AD.Christ - Church of Santi Cosma e Damiano. Rome. https://vk.com/photo-35220730_313024499 https://israelandpalestinediary.blogspot.com/2015/12/was-jesus-palestinian-or-was-jesus.html ------------------------------------------------------ Jesus Christ flanked by Saints Peter and Paul · Catacombs of Saints Peter and Marcellinus, Rome, 4th century AD. https://my-passion.blog/2018/11/29/oldest-paintings-of-jesus/ Christ between Saint Peter and Saint Paul, above four martyrs worshiping the Mystic Lamb, 4th century (dome of the Catacombs of the Saints Peter and Marcellinus, Rome). https://arsartisticadventureofmankind.wordpress.com/2014/07/07/early-western-christian-art-during-the-iiird-ivth-and-vth-centuries-the-painting-of-the-catacombs/ ----------------------------------- Year of Object(s) Creation: 550 A.D. (approximate) Provenience Nation: Cyprus Provenience Location: Church of the Panayia Kanakaria Year Removed from Findspot: 1975 (approximate) https://research.cgu.edu/cultural-property-disputes-resource/cpdr/church-of-panagia-kanakaria-mosaics/ ---------------------------------- **Sources:** 1. In early Christian art the nimbus certainly is not found on images of God and celestial beings, but only on figures borrowed from profane art, and in Biblical scenes; 2. Hence it follows that the Bible furnished no example for the bestowal of a halo upon individual saintly personages. 3. As a matter of fact the nimbus, as an inheritance from ancient art tradition, was readily adopted and ultimately found the widest application because the symbol of light for all divine, saintly ideals is offered by nature and not infrequently used in Scripture. 4. The nimbus of early Christian art manifests only in a few particular drawings, its relationship with that of late antiquity. 5. In the first half of the fourth century, Christ received a nimbus only when portrayed seated upon a throne or in an exalted and princely character, but it had already been used since Constantine, in pictures of the emperors, and was emblematic, not so much of divine as of human dignity and greatness. 6. The number of personages who were given a halo increased rapidly, until towards the end of the sixth century the use of symbols in the Christian Church became as general as it had formerly been in pagan art. https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11080b.htm ---------------------------------------------------- 1. NIMB (from Latin nimbus – cloud) – a glow around the head – as a sign of divine power, originated in the East. In Ancient Egypt and Mesopotamia, deities were depicted with a solar disk above their heads or with rays coming out of their heads. Later in Ancient Greece, the god of light Apollo and the god of the sun Helios began to be depicted with a radiant halo around their heads. The pagan halo is a symbol of the shining sun, divine flame, sacred light. 2. THE IDEA OF THE CHRISTIAN HALO was formed only in the 4th century. In Christianity, the halo is a symbol of participation in the essence of the One God. Since "God is light" (1 John 1:5), the halo is part of this light. The halo reveals the essence of Christ as the Heavenly Light revealed to the world. On the vault of the cubicle of Leo in the catacombs of Commodilla is one of the first images of Christ with a halo around his head. This fresco dates back to the second half of the 4th century. Jesus Christ. Second half of the 4th century. Fresco. Catacombs of Commodilla, Rome. 3. In the iconography of Angels, the halo becomes a mandatory attribute in the 5th century. 4. The nimbuses of the Apostles and saints appear only at the end of the 5th century. 5. A cross-shaped (cross-shaped) halo is a round halo with a cross placed inside it, which symbolizes the atoning sacrifice of Christ in the name of saving humanity. Among the earliest known images of Christ with a cross-shaped halo is a bas-relief from a sarcophagus of Constantinople origin from the beginning of the 5th century, depicting Christ with the apostles. The relief is poorly preserved, but traces of the crossbars of the cross can be seen on the halo. 6. By 6 th. c. AD the cross on the nimbus of Christ becomes almost mandatory. Ovchinnikov A. N. Symbolism of Christian Art. – M.: Rodnik, 1999. Pp. 10–19. https://dzen.ru/a/ZXl5T1_d5C72wmOv -------------------------------

For hundreds of years, generations of believers held to the historic belief that Rome/Popes were Antichrist/The Antichrist. What led to the dismissal of this traditional interpretation of Scripture in 1986, and who was behind it?