Quoting from [this site](https://carm.org/annihilationism/what-is-soul-sleep/) : > Soul sleep is the teaching that when a person dies that his soul "sleeps" until the time of the future resurrection. In this condition, the person is not aware or conscious. What are the biblical arguments against soul sleep?

According to the author of this article who is from White Throne Ministries, he teaches that the spirits of the dead are not in heaven but sleep in the sands awaiting one of the two resurrections. He quotes the following verse which was written by Peter under the influence of The Holy Spirit. *Acts 2:29* >"2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. *Acts 2:34* >For David is not ascended into the heavens:" Jesus talked of a **separation of believers and non-believers at death** through the parable of the rich man and Lazarus and reinforced that teaching on the cross when He told him that he will be with him in paradise that same Friday. *Luke 23:43* >Jesus said to him, “I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise He then says that a different meaning would be conveyed if that comma were to be removed and also that from other events that happened on that Friday we learn that Jesus did not go to paradise on that Friday because of the words Jesus said to Mary after rising from the dead. *John 20:17* >Jesus saith to her, Touch me not: for I have not yet ascended to my Father: According to that author, the words above prove that Jesus did not go to paradise on that Friday, hence justifying the need for a comma in the promise to thief verse. He backs it all up with all the verses from Acts that none of the Fathers have ascended to heaven but my question is, The Book of Revelation says there are martyrs under the altar who cry out to God for revenge against the inhabitants of the earth. These are the spirits of those martyrs that are spiritually in heaven. *Revelation 6:10* >the souls of martyrs who were killed for their faith in God cry out from under the altar, asking God when he will judge and avenge their deaths: The verse above is the first proof that the saints spiritually unite with God in paradise but their flesh await a re-union in the resurrection. The second proof is the presence of Elijah and Moses during the transfiguration for we know Moses died and the angels buried him, Elijah went to heaven with a chariot of fire. Where did their spirits come from during the transfiguration if the spirits of the righteous do not inherit paradise after death?

The Bible shows that Mary is in Heaven as the Ark of the Covenant (Rev 11:19), while the martyrs are crying out to God for vengeance under the altar (Rev 6:9) and the prayers of the saints are being offered as incense (Rev 8:4). So Mary and the saints are in Heaven, but what about **would-be saints**, i.e. people who haven't been perfected in this life? Do they experience sleep, meaning that they die, sleep, and wake up *all together* to the [final judgement](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_Judgment) ? Or are they judged *individually* before the final judgement? I would appreciate answers from different view points as long as it can be deduced from Scripture: Catholic (purgatorial), Eastern / Oriental Orthodox, and Protestant (non-purgatorial).

According to Wikipedia , "christian mortalism" describes the idea that the soul is not immortal, but dies together with the body and rises in the resurrection. Proponents of this are Jehovahs Witnesses, some Lutherans, Seventh-Day adventists and some others. Since the soul is dead or dissolved after death, that means God recreates it for the resurrection, as a body that is dissolved would need to be recreated. Since God is omniscient, not only does he know how each person would behave before they are born, this arguably also means that he knows how any potential person would have behaved if given the chance. Then, what is the difference between someone actually having gone through life, now no longer existing after death except for in the mind of God, to a person never having existed except for in the mind of God? In a sense this is asking what value the life-on-earth has, but I want to expand it in this sense to add the notion of how could God not grant resurrection to a person never having existed when that person is not fundamentally different from a person who has lived (both just existing in the mind of God after the latter person has died).

The Bible says in Ecclesiastes 9:5: > "For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not anything, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten." If an individual loses all knowledge after death, would it not mean that they no longer know or understand the gospel? Consequently, wouldn't this imply that they cease to believe in the gospel? The Bible also says in Revelation 21:8: > "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." Given this, I've been seeking scripture that suggests our spiritual nature continues to believe in the gospel even after death, but I've yet to find anything directly supporting this concept. I request an answer from the Baptist viewpoint.

For anyone who adheres to an understanding that the soul is mortal. What does "spirit" and "mind" refere to in Philippians 1:27 (NET): > [...] I should hear that you are standing firm in *one spirit*, with *one* > *mind*, by contending side by side for the faith of the gospel,

This is a question for those who see Christian anthropology of one part (Monism). The belief that human soul is not immortal and that man is a *unity*, that is, not a *duality* of *soul-body*, or a *trichotomy* of *spirit-soul-body*, but holistic, one part. The first part of my question is, how do you understand – in light of man not being dualistic and such – references to *soul* and *spirit* in the Bible, in general (e.g. 1 Thessalonians 5:23, NIV)? > May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. > May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming > of our Lord Jesus Christ. What is a soul? What is a spirit? And finally, if humans beings are completely dead after death, how are references to "sleep" (i.e. death) understood in the Bible? For example, 1 Thessalonians 4:14 (NIV): > For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that > God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him If the person is dead, how can we talk about him as sleeping? Or consider Psalm 16:10 (NIV): > because you will not abandon me to the realm of the dead, nor will you > let your faithful one see decay. Same question applies, how can a dead person be abandoned in a realm? I understand this is to be taken metaphorically somehow. But, in essence, if a person ceases to exist.

At Matthew 17:3-4 > "Suddenly Moses and Elijah appeared before them, talking with Jesus. > 4 Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here. If You > wish, I will put up three shelters - one for You, one for Moses, and > one for Elijah.”" How do advocates of soul sleep explain the appearance of Moses and Elijah - why weren't they asleep?

Paul was a Pharisee: > 6 Now **when Paul** perceived that one part were Sadducees and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, “**Brothers, I am a Pharisee, a son of Pharisees**. It is with respect to the hope and the resurrection of the dead that I am on trial.” 7 And when he had said this, a dissension arose between the Pharisees and the Sadducees, and the assembly was divided. 8 **For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, nor angel, nor spirit, but the Pharisees acknowledge them all**. 9 Then a great clamor arose, and some of the scribes of the Pharisees' party stood up and contended sharply, “We find nothing wrong in this man. What if a spirit or an angel spoke to him?” 10 And when the dissension became violent, the tribune, afraid that Paul would be torn to pieces by them, commanded the soldiers to go down and take him away from among them by force and bring him into the barracks. > [Acts 23:6-10 ESV] And as a Pharisee, he must have believed in [Sheol](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheol) , [Abraham's bosom](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosom_of_Abraham) (a compartment within Sheol) and the post-mortal consciousness of the spirits of the dead. This is confirmed by the [Parable of Lazarus & the rich man](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_man_and_Lazarus) (Luke 16:19-31), which Jesus likely based on traditional Pharisaic afterlife beliefs. For example, the Wikipedia article on the parable [says](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_man_and_Lazarus#Lightfoot:_a_parable_against_the_Pharisees) : > **Lightfoot: a parable against the Pharisees** > > John Lightfoot (1602–1675) treated the parable as a parody of Pharisee > belief concerning the Bosom of Abraham, and from the connection of > Abraham saying the rich man's family would not believe even if the > parable Lazarus was raised, to the priests' failure to believe in the > resurrection of Christ: > > > Any one may see, how Christ points at the infidelity of the Jews, even after that himself shall have risen again. From whence it is easy > to judge what was the design and intention of this parable. (From the > Talmud and Hebraica, Volume 3) > > E. W. Bullinger in the Companion Bible cited Lightfoot's comment, > and expanded it to include coincidence to lack of belief in the > resurrection of the historical Lazarus (John 12:10). Bullinger > considered that Luke did not identify the passage as a "parable" > because it contains a parody of the view of the afterlife: > > > **It is not called a parable because it cites a notable example of the Pharisee's tradition which had been brought from Babylon**. **Question**: According to Soul Sleep advocates, if Paul, being a Pharisee, held Pharisaic beliefs about the afterlife, does that mean that he changed his mind about the state of the dead after his conversion? Did Paul ever embrace [Christian mortalism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_mortalism) ? _____________ Related BHSE questions: - [When Paul said that he would like to be "at home with the Lord" (2 Corinthians 5:8), was he referring to Abraham's bosom?](https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/q/73501/38524) - [Did the Apostle Paul, as a Pharisee, believe in disembodied spirits? Acts 23:6-10](https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/q/74130/38524)

Testimonies of [astral projections](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astral_projection) , [out-of-body experiences (OBE)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out-of-body_experience) and [near-death experiences (NDE)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near-death_experience) abound, both within and outside Christianity. Many interpret these experiences as evidence that consciousness persists after a person's spirit departs from the body. Of course, this cannot be the case if [Christian mortalism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_mortalism) (a.k.a. 'soul sleep') is true. **Question**: How do 'soul sleep' adherents make sense of the abundant reports of astral projections, out-of-body experiences (OBE) and near-death experiences (NDE) both within and outside Christianity? ________________ Some examples: - A very insightful article on these experiences: [Science, Medicine, and Near Death Experiences © May 2015 Robert J. Spitzer, S.J., Ph.D. Magis Center of Reason and Faith](https://magiscenter.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Science_Medicine_and_NDEs.pdf) - [Doctors' give scientific evidence for the afterlife from near death experiences (NDEs)](https://youtu.be/qDhH8jpU7Ks) - [Neuroscientist Sees 'Proof of Heaven' in Week-Long Coma](https://abcnews.go.com/Health/neuroscientist-sees-proof-heaven-week-long-coma/story?id=17555207) - [Eben Alexander, Neurologist and Author Talks About His Dying & the Afterlife](https://youtu.be/AUF2yqUMBic) - [Near Death Experience - Wayne Fowler Dies and Meets Jesus Face to Face](https://youtu.be/wXAOoeKDTIo) ___________ Related questions: https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/83470/50422 https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/81227/50422

My question is NOT about how [soul sleep](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_mortalism) advocates interpret Luke 16:19-31 -- that's an exegetical question that has already been asked [elsewhere](https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/59681/50422) . Rather, my question is about understanding, from the soul sleep perspective, why God would, in His providence, let a parable like [the rich man and Lazarus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_man_and_Lazarus) be part of the canon, knowing in advance that it would mislead so many people to the wrong conclusion (that the dead are conscious). God, being omniscient and all powerful, surely knew that millions of Christians would take elements of the parable at face value and would wrongly conclude that the spirit of a person remains conscious after death. Why would God let an inspired parable mislead so many people like that? _______ Related questions: - https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/83011/50422 - https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/83846/50422 Similar question, but about a different controversial topic: - https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/83092/50422 _____ #### Am I asking a [loaded question](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loaded_question) ? From Wikipedia: *"A loaded question is a form of [complex question](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complex_question) that contains a controversial assumption (e.g., a presumption of guilt)."* My question certainly has an assumption, namely, that Luke 16:19-31 has led possibly millions of Christians to conclude that the dead are conscious. Is this assumption controversial? I don't think so. Whenever I've asked people for the biblical basis for the dead being conscious, the parable of the rich man and Lazarus is easily in the top 3 most cited passages (see for example [here](https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/a/25699/38524) , [here](https://christianity.stackexchange.com/a/89009/50422) and [here](https://christianity.stackexchange.com/a/89016/50422)) . Similarly, the [Wikipedia article](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_man_and_Lazarus#Afterlife_doctrine) on the parable says: > **Most Christians believe in the immortality of the soul** and particular judgment and see the story as consistent with it, or **even refer to it to establish these doctrines like St. Irenaeus did**. Therefore, the assumption is warranted, and thus the question is not loaded. _______ UPDATE: user 'Hold To The Rod' has recently made a very solid case [here](https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/a/74082/38524) for viewing the setting of the parable as realistic, including supporting quotes from a copious number of ante-Nicene Fathers who openly advocated a conscious intermediate state. In the same line, I also suggest the curious reader to take a look at the questions https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/89518/50422 & https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/89140/50422 . This reinforces the premise of my question: if Soul Sleep is true, then the early Church was **MASSIVELY** misled.

Many passages seem to suggest that one becomes born again and obtains eternal life on this side of eternity (before death). For example, regarding eternal life, the Apostle John said: > 24 Truly, truly, I say to you, **whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life**. He does not come into judgment, **but has passed from death to life**. [John 5:24 ESV] > 36 **Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life**; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him. [John 3:36 ESV] > 11 And this is the testimony, that **God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son**. 12 **Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life**. [1 John 5:11-12 ESV] Notice how John seems to refer to eternal life as a present reality that we already possess, right now, if we have believed in the Son of God. John Piper arrives at a similar conclusion: > Stage 5: We Have Eternal Life Now > > **In believing we have eternal life NOW, not just in the future**. > > In John 5:24 Jesus says, "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life [not "will have" but "has"—now!], and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life." **In other words eternal life is not something you wait for after death. It is something you have NOW if you are believing in Jesus**. > > **Believing is the link that unites us with the life of God in Christ now**. **If we have Christ, we have his life now. And his life is eternal**. > > [...] > > Stage 7: Not Interrupted at Death > > **Eternal life is not interrupted at death.** > > In John 11:25–26 Jesus says, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me shall live even if he dies, 26 and everyone who lives and believes in Me shall never die." I think what he means is this: **Everyone who has eternal life by faith will never have that life stripped away from him; even if he dies, he will live. Physical death will not turn eternal life into temporary life**. > > [(source)](https://www.desiringgod.org/messages/the-destiny-eternal-life) _____ John 17:3 sheds further light on the true meaning and implications of eternal life: > 3 And **this is eternal life**, that **they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent**. [John 17:3 ESV] Eternal life thus entails knowing both God and His Son, Jesus Christ. But then John explains to us in other passages what it means to know God and how this knowing happens in this life. If we know God in this life, then from John 17:3 it would seem to follow that we also obtain eternal life in this life: > 7 Beloved, let us love one another, **for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God**. 8 **Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love**. 9 In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that **God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him**. 10 In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12 No one has ever seen God; **if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us**. [1 John 4:7-12 ESV] > 23 Jesus answered him, “**If anyone loves me**, he will keep my word, **and my Father will love him**, **and we will come to him and make our home with him**. [John 14:23 ESV] _______ Similarly, regarding spiritual rebirth, Peter said (note the present & present perfect tenses): > 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, **he has caused us to be born again** to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, 5 who by God's power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. [1 Peter 1:3-5] > 20 He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for the sake of you 21 **who through him are believers in God**, who raised him from the dead and gave him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God. > > 2 Having purified your souls by your obedience to the truth for a sincere brotherly love, love one another earnestly from a pure heart, 23 **since you have been born again**, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God; > [1 Peter 1:20-23] And a similar idea was expressed by the Apostle Paul (once again, note the present & present perfect tenses) > 17 Therefore, **if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation**. **The old has passed away; behold, the new has come**. [2 Corinthians 5:17 ESV] > 10 For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. 11 **So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus**. > > 12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions. 13 Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, **but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life**, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. [Romans 6:10-13 ESV] _________________ **Questions** According to [Christian mortalists](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_mortalism) (a.k.a. 'Soul sleep' advocates): - Are we born again in this life? - Does eternal life begin in this life? - If so, what happens when we die? Does eternal life continue *while* we are physically dead (i.e. between death and the resurrection)? Can a Christian be dead (biologically/physically) and have eternal life simultaneously? - Does eternal life begin in this life, stop when we die and resume when we are resurrected? If so, how can it be eternal if it has gaps? _______ **Related questions** - https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/89603/50422 - [When does eternal life begin? When we believe in the Son (1 John 5:11-12, John 3:36, 5:24) or on Judgement Day (Matthew 25:31-46)?](https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/q/74395/38524) - [Does it follow from John 17:3 that the wicked will cease to exist (since they won't have eternal life)?](https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/q/74380/38524) - [What does "born again" from John 3:3 mean?](https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/q/373/38524)

Inspired by the answers I received to my previous question https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/89140/50422 , I'm very curious about what proponents of Soul Sleep have to say on this topic. For example, the [answer](https://christianity.stackexchange.com/a/89259/50422) I found most convincing and elaborate concludes (emphasis mine): > **The only topic raised in the OP where the Apostolic Fathers are abundantly clear is post-mortal consciousness--they are decidedly in favor of it**. > > Annihilationism does not find clear support in the Apostolic Fathers (but does find much opposition in the writings of their disciples), and proponents of bipartite & tripartite views are unlikely to find compelling evidence one way or the other. Whatever they conclude from reading the Bible will be relatively unchallenged by the writings of the Apostolic Fathers. > > *** > > **Numerous relevant statements were made by Justin, Irenaeus, Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian, and Origen**–however, I will exclude them from this post per the Meta guidance. **They are ante-Nicene Fathers**, but not Apostolic Fathers. A compilation of many of their relevant statements is found [here](http://www.earlychristiancommentary.com/early-christian-dictionary/dead/) . **Question**: What is the view of soul sleep adherents on statements from the Apostolic and ante-Nicene Fathers that seem to support post-mortal consciousness? EDIT: see also this [defense](https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/a/74082/38524) of the parable of the rich man and Lazarus as set in reality -- multiple ante-Nicene Fathers are quoted.

If God exists outside of time and space, he isn't bound by their physical laws. In particular, he may be able to ignore the flow of time, experiencing different places and times in non-sequential order. Now suppose that when a person dies, God immediately takes their human spirit (or whatever one calls the essence that defines what they are) and transports it to the time of one of the general resurrections. Both for that person, and in reality, their resurrection really is within seconds of their death. There would be no supernatural "place of the dead", no "intermediate state"; the physical parts are decomposing in the grave, and the spirit parts have jumped into the future. Those other concepts have become meaningless. For "soul sleep" advocates, this would mean that they are wrong about people "sleeping" between death and resurrection, but correct that the dead have no awareness between death and resurrection. For "consciousness after death" advocates, this would mean that they are wrong about the dead being aware of the present time, but correct that, except very briefly, the dead never really lose awareness. **Is there any biblical scripture that would disprove such a process, or at least present a conflict with it?** (Note that I don't want a rehashing of why one side or the other is wrong; I want to know why the Bible says that my specific scenario must be wrong.)

By an [Occam's razor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor) interpretation of 1 Samuel 28, I mean an interpretation that is as straightforward as possible, which doesn't require making unnecessary assumptions or special pleadings in the way the passage is interpreted. For example, if the author says literally and plainly that "X happened", well, the straightforward interpretation is that X happened and that's it. Applying this to 1 Samuel 28 ESV (pay attention to the bold text): > In those days the Philistines gathered their forces for war, to fight against Israel. And Achish said to David, “Understand that you and your men are to go out with me in the army.” 2 David said to Achish, “Very well, you shall know what your servant can do.” And Achish said to David, “Very well, I will make you my bodyguard for life.” > > 3 **Now Samuel had died**, and all Israel had mourned for him and buried him in Ramah, his own city. And Saul had put the mediums and the necromancers out of the land. 4 The Philistines assembled and came and encamped at Shunem. And Saul gathered all Israel, and they encamped at Gilboa. 5 When Saul saw the army of the Philistines, he was afraid, and his heart trembled greatly. 6 And when Saul inquired of the Lord, the Lord did not answer him, either by dreams, or by Urim, or by prophets. 7 Then Saul said to his servants, “Seek out for me a woman who is a medium, that I may go to her and inquire of her.” And his servants said to him, “Behold, there is a medium at En-dor.” > > 8 So Saul disguised himself and put on other garments and went, he and two men with him. And they came to the woman by night. And he said, “Divine for me by a spirit and bring up for me whomever I shall name to you.” 9 The woman said to him, “Surely you know what Saul has done, how he has cut off the mediums and the necromancers from the land. Why then are you laying a trap for my life to bring about my death?” 10 But Saul swore to her by the Lord, “As the Lord lives, no punishment shall come upon you for this thing.” 11 Then the woman said, “Whom shall I bring up for you?” **He said, “Bring up Samuel for me.”** 12 **When the woman saw Samuel**, she cried out with a loud voice. And the woman said to Saul, “Why have you deceived me? You are Saul.” 13 The king said to her, “Do not be afraid. What do you see?” And the woman said to Saul, “I see a god coming up out of the earth.” 14 He said to her, “What is his appearance?” And she said, “An old man is coming up, and he is wrapped in a robe.” **And Saul knew that it was Samuel, and he bowed with his face to the ground and paid homage**. > > 15 **Then Samuel said to Saul**, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?” Saul answered, “I am in great distress, for the Philistines are warring against me, and God has turned away from me and answers me no more, either by prophets or by dreams. Therefore I have summoned you to tell me what I shall do.” 16 **And Samuel said**, “Why then do you ask me, since the Lord has turned from you and become your enemy? 17 The Lord has done to you as he spoke by me, for the Lord has torn the kingdom out of your hand and given it to your neighbor, David. 18 Because you did not obey the voice of the Lord and did not carry out his fierce wrath against Amalek, therefore the Lord has done this thing to you this day. 19 Moreover, the Lord will give Israel also with you into the hand of the Philistines, and tomorrow you and your sons shall be with me. The Lord will give the army of Israel also into the hand of the Philistines.” > > 20 Then Saul fell at once full length on the ground, filled with fear because of **the words of Samuel**. And there was no strength in him, for he had eaten nothing all day and all night. 21 And the woman came to Saul, and when she saw that he was terrified, she said to him, “Behold, your servant has obeyed you. I have taken my life in my hand and have listened to what you have said to me. 22 Now therefore, you also obey your servant. Let me set a morsel of bread before you; and eat, that you may have strength when you go on your way.” 23 He refused and said, “I will not eat.” But his servants, together with the woman, urged him, and he listened to their words. So he arose from the earth and sat on the bed. 24 Now the woman had a fattened calf in the house, and she quickly killed it, and she took flour and kneaded it and baked unleavened bread of it, 25 and she put it before Saul and his servants, and they ate. Then they rose and went away that night. Assuming that 1 Samuel 28 is inspired text and that the author is telling us about events as they actually happened, a straightforward interpretation of the passage reveals the following facts: - Samuel was already dead (v3) - Saul asked the medium to invoke Samuel (v11) - The medium saw Samuel (v12) - Saul was convinced that it was Samuel (v14) - Samuel spoke to Saul (v15, v16) - The words that were spoken were from Samuel (v20) As we can see, the author is telling us, literally and plainly, that Samuel spoke to Saul. An Occam's razor interpretation of this passage should therefore lead us to conclude that, if the author is telling us that Samuel spoke to Saul (even though he was already dead), then, well, Samuel spoke to Saul. As simple as that. That's literally, unambiguously stated in the text. And keep in mind that this is not a Parable or other kind of passage full of symbolic language that would warrant having second thoughts on the meaning of words. ### Question According to 'soul sleep' adherents, what's wrong with this straightforward approach to 1 Samuel chapter 28? If the author is telling us that "X happened", what's wrong with concluding that "X happened"? If this "Occam's razor" interpretation of 1 Samuel 28 is not justified, are there any other examples of non-parabolic, non-symbolic passages in which a similar straightforward interpretation is not justified? Is there a hermeneutical principle that justifies not always being straightforward in our interpretation of a non-symbolic, non-parabolic passage?

Most soul sleep adherents find no issue in accepting that demonic/unclean spirits are conscious beings despite the fact that they lack physical bodies. The scriptural evidence for this is quite undeniable: Matthew 12:43-45 (ESV): > 43 “**When the unclean spirit has gone out of a person**, it passes through waterless places seeking rest, but finds none. 44 Then it says, **‘I will return to my house from which I came.’** And when it comes, it finds the house empty, swept, and put in order. 45 **Then it goes and brings with it seven other spirits more evil than itself, and they enter and dwell there**, and the last state of that person is worse than the first. So also will it be with this evil generation.” Mark 5:1-13 (ESV): > They came to the other side of the sea, to the country of the Gerasenes. 2 And when Jesus had stepped out of the boat, immediately there met him out of the tombs **a man with an unclean spirit**. 3 He lived among the tombs. And no one could bind him anymore, not even with a chain, 4 for he had often been bound with shackles and chains, but he wrenched the chains apart, and he broke the shackles in pieces. No one had the strength to subdue him. 5 Night and day among the tombs and on the mountains he was always crying out and cutting himself with stones. 6 And when he saw Jesus from afar, he ran and fell down before him. 7 And crying out with a loud voice, he said, “What have you to do with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I adjure you by God, do not torment me.” 8 For he was saying to him, **“Come out of the man, you unclean spirit!”** 9 And Jesus asked him, “What is your name?” He replied, **“My name is Legion, for we are many.”** 10 And he begged him earnestly not to send them out of the country. 11 Now a great herd of pigs was feeding there on the hillside, 12 and they begged him, saying, **“Send us to the pigs; let us enter them.”** 13 So he gave them permission. **And the unclean spirits came out and entered the pigs**; and the herd, numbering about two thousand, rushed down the steep bank into the sea and drowned in the sea. Luke 24:36-39 (ESV): > 36 As they were talking about these things, Jesus himself stood among them, and said to them, “Peace to you!” 37 But they were startled and frightened **and thought they saw a spirit**. 38 And he said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? 39 See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me, and see. **For a spirit does not have flesh and bones** as you see that I have.” ______________ But, if unclean spirits can be conscious without physical bodies, why can't human spirits also be conscious without physical bodies? Are unclean spirits and human spirits fundamentally different? Aren't they all just spirits? If God is spirit, does not have a body and is conscious, if unclean spirits do not have bodies and are conscious, why can't human spirits also be conscious in the absence of a physical body? I'm interested in what soul sleep adherents have to say about these questions. _____ Relevant BH.SE questions: - [Did Jesus believe in ghosts / disembodied spirits?](https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/q/56441/38524) - [Is there any fundamental difference between the "spirit" of a human being ("breath of life") and the "spirit" of a disembodied (evil) spirit?](https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/q/73563/38524)

Ellen G. White is the founder of the Seventh Day Adventists. One of the 28 [key teachings](https://www.adventist.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/ADV-28Beliefs2020.pdf) of the Adventist Church is the concept of Soul Sleep (the teaching that the Soul is in an unconscious state before the Second Coming of Christ). Another is the Bible as the sole authority. So, what biblical arguments did EGW use for soul sleep?

***Touch*** poignantly stated in a now closed [question](https://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/15402/do-people-go-to-heaven-immediately-when-they-die) , >But if people are already in heaven this means that there really isn't much reason for Jesus Christ to return, because all those that believe in Him are already in heaven. > > If Jesus Christ will return and all those that have faith in Him will be raised and be priests with Him for a thousand years, why make it seem as if the deceased are already in heaven? If someone dies and goes to heaven before the Last Judgement, what need is there for him to be judged at the final judgement? Hasn't he already been judged righteous if he is in heaven? In _The Bible and the Future_, Anthony Hoekema states that since Augustine, Christians have believed that the souls of those who die either rest peacefully, in the case of Christians, or are afflicted, in the case of the damned, after death until the resurrection. However, in my experience, it is nearly universally held among Protestants and Evangelicals that upon death, the soul ascends to Heaven in the case of the believer, or descends to Hell in the case of the unsaved. Hoekama also asserts that both Calvin and Luther believed in an intermediate state between death and resurrection, with Luther holding to a doctrine that the soul "sleeps", and Calvin positing that the believer experiences an "incomplete" bliss. While I am aware that views on the exact characteristics vary among those who admit an intermediate state, I am interested in how arguments that people _do not_ immediately "go to Heaven" or "go to Hell" are framed in a biblical context, especially those that claim that existence in Heaven or Hell commences only after the bodily resurrection and the great "White Throne" judgement. What are the biblical bases given for belief that people _do not_ go to Heaven or Hell immediately after death?

[1 Thess 4:13 (Douay-Rheims)](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Thessalonians+4%3A13&version=DRA) says: > For if we believe that Jesus died, and rose again; even so them **who have slept through Jesus**, will God bring with him. Or, in a more modern English [1 Thess 4:14 (ESV)](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Thessalonians+4%3A14&version=ESV) : > For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those **who have fallen asleep**. This verse implies that after we die we sleep until the general resurrection. How then, can there be the intercession of the dead for the living? **Question**: How would the Catholic Church reconcile 1 Thess 4:13 (or 1 Thess 4:14 in Protestant Bible), which suggests soul sleep, with the doctrine of Intercession of Saints?

*Matthew 10:15* reads: "*Truly I tell you, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town.*" NIV How do annihilationists like Jehovah's Witnesses or Adventists understand this verse?