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How do proponents of the rapture account for 1 Thessalonians 4:14, which seems to refute the concept?
In 1 Thessalonians 4:14 Paul tells us that the people that He refers to as "sleeping" will rise from the dead just like Jesus. > 1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. Jesus both died and was resurrected on earth. M...
In 1 Thessalonians 4:14 Paul tells us that the people that He refers to as "sleeping" will rise from the dead just like Jesus.
> 1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
Jesus both died and was resurrected on earth.
Meaning that Paul was speaking here about the earthly resurrection that He referred to in Romans 6:13.
Meaning that the "sleepers" are backslidden believers.
> Rm 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
I am curious to find out how rapturists deal with this.
brmicke
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Aug 13, 2024, 03:30 PM
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What is the meaning of 1 Thessalonians 5:22?
Inspired by [an answer](https://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/774/what-does-the-bible-say-about-bad-words/788#788) to one of my other questions, what is the proper meaning of 1 Thessalonians 5:22? * [KJV](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Thessalonians%205:22&version=KJV) >...
Inspired by [an answer](https://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/774/what-does-the-bible-say-about-bad-words/788#788) to one of my other questions, what is the proper meaning of 1 Thessalonians 5:22?
* [KJV](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Thessalonians%205:22&version=KJV)
> Abstain from all appearance of evil.
* [NIV](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Thessalonians%205:22&version=NIV) :
> reject every kind of evil.
* [NKJV](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Thessalonians%205:22&version=NKJV)
> Abstain from every form of evil.
I am most familiar with the first translation, as was the poster of the answer that inspired this question. But is that an accurate translation?
Flimzy
(22318 rep)
Aug 30, 2011, 10:12 AM
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How do Cessasionists interpret 1 Thessalonians 5:20?
> Rejoice evermore. Pray without ceasing. In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you. Quench not the Spirit. **Despise not prophesyings**. Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Abstain from all appearance of evil. -...
> Rejoice evermore. Pray without ceasing. In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you. Quench not the Spirit. **Despise not prophesyings**. Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Abstain from all appearance of evil. - 1 Thessalonians 5:16-22
How do Cessasionists understand "despise not prophesyings" in this context?
Mike Borden
(24105 rep)
Sep 24, 2021, 01:24 PM
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How would the Catholic Church reconcile 1 Thess 4:13 (which suggests soul sleep) with the doctrine of Intercession of Saints?
[1 Thess 4:13 (Douay-Rheims)](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Thessalonians+4%3A13&version=DRA) says: > For if we believe that Jesus died, and rose again; even so them **who have slept through Jesus**, will God bring with him. Or, in a more modern English [1 Thess 4:14 (ESV)](https://...
[1 Thess 4:13 (Douay-Rheims)](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Thessalonians+4%3A13&version=DRA) says:
> For if we believe that Jesus died, and rose again; even so them **who have slept through Jesus**, will God bring with him.
Or, in a more modern English [1 Thess 4:14 (ESV)](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Thessalonians+4%3A14&version=ESV) :
> For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those **who have fallen asleep**.
This verse implies that after we die we sleep until the general resurrection. How then, can there be the intercession of the dead for the living?
**Question**: How would the Catholic Church reconcile 1 Thess 4:13 (or 1 Thess 4:14 in Protestant Bible), which suggests soul sleep, with the doctrine of Intercession of Saints?
GratefulDisciple
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Jul 15, 2021, 06:08 AM
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How do non-soul sleep adherents interpret 1 Thessalonians 4:13–18?
How do **non**-[soul sleep][1] adherents interpret 1 Thessalonians 4:13–18: >But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14  For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which...
How do **non**-soul sleep adherents interpret 1 Thessalonians 4:13–18:
>But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words. (1 Thessalonians 4:13–18 , KJV)
David
(477 rep)
Jan 31, 2017, 11:37 PM
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Are these the same 2 trumpet blasts?
In Matthew chapter 24 Jesus is describing his 2nd coming: > For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, > so will be the coming of the Son of Man. Wherever there is a carcass, > there the vultures will gather.“Immediately after the distress of > those days > > “‘the sun wi...
In Matthew chapter 24 Jesus is describing his 2nd coming:
> For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west,
> so will be the coming of the Son of Man. Wherever there is a carcass,
> there the vultures will gather.“Immediately after the distress of
> those days
>
> “‘the sun will be darkened,
> and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky,
> and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’ “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the
> earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of
> heaven, with power and great glory. *And he will send his angels with
> a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four
> winds, from one end of the heavens to the other."* *Matt. 24:27-31*
He says that a loud trumpet blast will be sounded as his angels are sent to gather his elect.
Later in the New Testament, we read St. Paul describing what seems to be the same event:
> According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive,
> who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede
> those who have fallen asleep. *For the Lord himself will come down
> from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and
> with the trumpet call of God*, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
> *1 Thess. 4:15-16*
Are these 2 passages describing the same trumpet blast? It appears to me that they both include:
1. The appearance (or reappearance) of the Son of Man.
2. Active participation of God's angels.
3. A trumpet blast.
I'm particularly concerned with the trumpet, which would logically be the connecting hinge of these two passages.
Also, please no dispensationalism...
user5286
Aug 19, 2013, 01:17 PM
• Last activity: Jan 5, 2021, 11:53 PM
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Premillennialist view of 1 Thessalonians 4:16
I've read books on [Premillennialism](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premillennialism) (including [Left Behind](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left_Behind)) and heard many people preach on the topic but I've never heard an explanation of [1 Thessalonians 4:16-17](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?sea...
I've read books on [Premillennialism](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premillennialism) (including [Left Behind](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left_Behind)) and heard many people preach on the topic but I've never heard an explanation of [1 Thessalonians 4:16-17](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Thessalonians%204:16-17&version=NIV1984) :
> 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and **the dead in Christ will rise first**. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
That is, I have heard of those **who are alive** suddenly being Raptured but no mention of the **dead going first**. That is, in this verse it appears to consist of *two separate events*: first those who are dead, and then the living.
For that matter, the Rapture is often depicted as a silent affair but here there is a *"loud command"* and a *"trumpet call"*.
**Has any prominent premillennialist discussed this issue?**
*(On Wikipedia's [Rapture](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture) page this verse is mentioned but the explanation of the "dead rising first" is not discussed.)*
Reinstate Monica - Goodbye SE
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Oct 19, 2012, 05:25 PM
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What is the Catholic view of the rapture?
What is the Roman Catholic view of the rapture? Does the Catholic church accept the idea that people will be caught up in the air to meet Christ? If not, how do they interpret [1 Thessalonians 4:17][1]? [1]: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20thessalonians%204:17&version=NIV
What is the Roman Catholic view of the rapture? Does the Catholic church accept the idea that people will be caught up in the air to meet Christ? If not, how do they interpret 1 Thessalonians 4:17 ?
user23
Nov 30, 2011, 06:40 PM
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How did Paul know that Satan hindered his movements?
It took me by surprise that Paul sounds very certain that Satan blocked him from coming back to Thessalonica. How could he know that? And how do we know, from the scriptures, that he is not just passing the blame to Satan? > But since we were torn away from you, brothers, for a short time, in person...
It took me by surprise that Paul sounds very certain that Satan blocked him from coming back to Thessalonica. How could he know that? And how do we know, from the scriptures, that he is not just passing the blame to Satan?
> But since we were torn away from you, brothers, for a short time, in person not in heart, we endeavored the more eagerly and with great desire to see you face to face, because we wanted to come to you—I, Paul, again and again—**but Satan hindered us**. (1 Thessalonians 2:17-18, ESV)
WelcomeNewUsers
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Jan 9, 2014, 06:36 AM
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What does Reformed Protestantism teach regarding 'spirit and soul and body' (I Thessalonians 5:23)
>And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. I Thessalonians 5:23 KJV Paul lists 'spirit and soul and body' in that order, which I take to be significant and which I take to mean th...
>And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. I Thessalonians 5:23 KJV
Paul lists 'spirit and soul and body' in that order, which I take to be significant and which I take to mean that the spirit ought to be considered first in such considerations.
Hebrews 4:12 KJV, makes a distinction between soul and spirit in reference to the material body :
>For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Here, the immaterial soul and spirit are likened to parts of the material body, namely the functional parts of the skeleton (the joints) which allow of movement and mechanical activity; and the living tissue of that functioning mechanism (the marrow) which is the living tissue within that mechanical structure.
Thus I understand that spirit is the unique living being of existence ; that soul is a non-material construct that allows the inner spirit to engage in non-material aspects of human existence (such as activities of the mind) ; and that the material body is the living organism functioning in the substantial world through the inhalation of oxygen from the atmosphere.
Is this what Reformed Protestantism teaches or does it teach something different from what I have understood from scripture ?
Nigel J
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Feb 15, 2019, 11:27 AM
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According to Catholicism, will those who are alive on the Day of Judgement die physically?
At [1 Thessalonians 4:15–17 (NRSVCE)](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Thessalonians+4&version=NRSVCE) we read: > For this we declare to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will by no means precede those who have died. For th...
At [1 Thessalonians 4:15–17 (NRSVCE)](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Thessalonians+4&version=NRSVCE) we read:
> For this we declare to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will by no means precede those who have died. For the Lord himself, with a cry of command, with the archangel’s call and with the sound of God’s trumpet, will descend from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up in the clouds together with them to meet the Lord in the air; and so we will be with the Lord forever.
Do the words of St. Paul imply that those who are alive on the Day of Judgement will not face physical death, but will directly enter Judgement? What do the Catholic Church's teachings say about such a prospect?
Kadalikatt Joseph Sibichan
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Nov 13, 2017, 04:37 AM
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Where do dead in Christ rise from if they're with Jesus?
In Revelation and 1 Thessalonians we read that the dead in Christ rise first. This makes sense if you do not believe that the dead are already in heaven, but very many Christians believe that the righteous dead are with Christ already at this point, usually upon their death. So if the dead are alrea...
In Revelation and 1 Thessalonians we read that the dead in Christ rise first. This makes sense if you do not believe that the dead are already in heaven, but very many Christians believe that the righteous dead are with Christ already at this point, usually upon their death.
So if the dead are already with Jesus where are the dead in Christ rising from?
Patty Woodside
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Mar 29, 2015, 04:51 AM
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What are "all things" in "Let all things be tested, keep to what is good"?
1 Thessalonians 5:21 reads: > Put all things to the test: keep what is good [[GNT](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Thessalonians+5%3A21&version=GNT)] > > Prove all things; hold fast that which is good [[KJV](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Thessalonians+5%3A21&version=K...
1 Thessalonians 5:21 reads:
> Put all things to the test: keep what is good [[GNT](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Thessalonians+5%3A21&version=GNT)]
>
> Prove all things; hold fast that which is good [[KJV](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Thessalonians+5%3A21&version=KJV)]
What is "all things" here?
Marcin Sanecki
(231 rep)
Mar 28, 2013, 12:18 PM
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Must everyone live a quiet life?
1 Thessalonians 4:11 says, > and to make it your ambition to lead a quiet life: You should mind your own business and work with your hands, just as we told you, If this was a blanket statement to everyone, people like Billy Graham would be sinning by living famous lives in the public spotlight. Is t...
1 Thessalonians 4:11 says,
> and to make it your ambition to lead a quiet life: You should mind your own business and work with your hands, just as we told you,
If this was a blanket statement to everyone, people like Billy Graham would be sinning by living famous lives in the public spotlight.
Is that true? What is the real command here? How has this issue been addressed elsewhere in the Old & New Testaments, or by scholars and theologians?
Jeff
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Jul 16, 2013, 12:41 PM
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If the dead are already in heaven, how do they rise at the second coming?
[1 Thessalonians 4:16][1] says: > For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: It's my understanding that most people in the Western world believe in Christian immortalism though. If...
1 Thessalonians 4:16 says:
> For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
It's my understanding that most people in the Western world believe in Christian immortalism though. If the dead are already in heaven, how are they rising here?
Ullallulloo
(739 rep)
Nov 13, 2012, 12:35 AM
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What did God do to the Jews in Thessalonica?
Paul is telling his Thessalonian buddies that God's wrath has come at last to the mean Jews (countrymen) nearby. > **1 Thessalonians 2:14-16 ESV** For you, brothers, became imitators of the churches of God in Christ Jesus that are in Judea. For you suffered the same things **from your own countrymen...
Paul is telling his Thessalonian buddies that God's wrath has come at last to the mean Jews (countrymen) nearby.
> **1 Thessalonians 2:14-16 ESV** For you, brothers, became imitators of the churches of God in Christ Jesus that are in Judea. For you suffered the same things **from your own countrymen** as they did from the Jews, who killed both the Lord Jesus and the prophets, and drove us out, and displease God and oppose all mankind by hindering us from speaking to the Gentiles that they might be saved—so as always to fill up the measure of their sins. **But wrath has come upon them at last**! But since we were torn away from you blah blah blah...
What wrath? From who? From God? The story of Paul in Thessalonica in Acts 17 doesn't show any retribution towards the persecuting Jews. What is Paul talking about?
LCIII
(9497 rep)
Dec 12, 2014, 03:12 PM
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