Most discussions of the Creed suggest that both the Orthodox and Roman Catholic Churches accept the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed and that the only substantive difference between them is the Filioque. Yet there is one other significant difference: The Catholic Creed includes "God from God" in the section on the Son of God (see ), while the Orthodox Creed does not have a similar clause (see , ). Why do they differ on whether to include this language, and does it signal any difference in dogma? NOTE: As of January 11, 2026, this question has not been answered. The discussion has provided documentation of the difference by not an explanation of why they are different.

I will often engage in dialogue with Catholics and Orthodox Christians who tell me that the doctrine of their churches affirms that salvation is by grace through faith. If that is true, then what distinguishes Lutherans from Catholics and Eastern Orthodox Christians?

Nursing Madonna / The milk giver icon tradition - 1. Is this apostolic according to the catholic and orthodox church? - comparing to 2 Thessalonians 2:15 for the unwritten traditions.() > **2 Thessalonians 2:15** > Therefore, brethren, **stand fast, and hold the > traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word**, or our epistle. (**stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word**) is often pointed to by Catholics and Orthodox as the apostles teaching unwritten traditions. ------------------------- **Is a person condemned by the 7 ecumenical council if not accepting this practice according to the church?** > If anyone does not confess that Christ our God can be represented in > his humanity, let him be anathema. If anyone does not accept > representation in art of evangelical scenes, let him be anathema. If > anyone does not salute such representations as standing for the Lord > and his saints, let him be anathema. **If anyone rejects any written or > unwritten tradition of the church, let him be anathema.** > > https://www.papalencyclicals.net/councils/ecum07.htm The 7 ecumenical council condemns every person that does not accept any written on unwritten tradition, this traditions of the nursing Madonna is not written in the scripture, it must be considered unwritten tradition. It seems that this tradition can be found in the catholic, eastern orthodox and the oriental orthodox churches. -------------------------------------------------------------- **(Content notice: This post contains depictions of partial nudity.)** **Pagan similarities:** **It is worth to mentioning that there are several similarities with the pagan traditions only in this single icon, this is what bothers me, how will Orthodox or Catholics explain these similarities:** 1. The nursing Madonna - Same as Isis nursing Horus. 2. Holding child - same as Isis holding Horus. 3. The title queen of heaven - same as Isis. - ((The golden ass - Book XI)) 4. The child is connected to the physical sun - same as Horus. 5. The child is born on the winter solstice when the days begin to get longer. - same as the child Isis holds Horus - (Plutarch, On Isis and Osiris, ISIS AND OSIRIS, 377 )(The winter solstice - (Natural history 18.221)) 6. Halo behind the head as the pagan tradition for the idols. ------------------------------------------ 1. and 2. **The nursing Mdona or “Galaktotrophousa” (Γαλακτοτροφουσα, meaning “the Milk-Giver”) unwritten tradition of the Eastern Orthodox Church:** > The specific Icon **celebrated** on July 3 (and January 12) **dates from the > 6th century A.D.** and resided in St. Sabbas’ lavra (a type of monastic > community). Before his death, St Sabbas prophetically stated that in > time a pilgrim sharing the saint’s name, of royal lineage from Serbia, > would visit, and to him the Icon of the Mother of God, the > “Milk-Giver”, should be given as a blessing from the Monastery. God’s > time is not like our time, and so it was not until 700 years later > that the prophecy was fulfilled. The pilgrim was the Serbian prince > Rastko Nemanjić, who had taken the monastic name “Sava” (i.e. Sabbas) > when a youth. https://iconreader.wordpress.com/2011/07/03/milk-giver-icon-not-scandalized-by-the-incarnation/ > The iconographic type of the Virgin Milk-Feeder is rooted in the > Gospel narrative of Jesus Christ's birth (Matthew 2) and the verse: > «Blessed is the womb that bore You, and **the breasts which nursed You!**» > **(Luke 11:27)**. https://www.monastiriaka.gr/en/blog/panagia-galaktotrophousa-the-virgin-lactans-or-milk-nursing > **Luke 11:28** > > He replied, **“Blessed rather are those who hear the > word of God and obey it.”** > > https://biblehub.com/luke/11-28.htm ------------------------------------------------- **3. The title queen of heaven for Isis:** >“O blessed Queen of Heaven, > whether you are the Lady Ceres who is…” **> - Lucius’ Prayer for the Assistance of Isis (The golden ass - Book XI) “Most holy and everlasting, blessed Lady” - Lucius’ Prayer of Thanks** > http://www.societasviaromana.net/Collegium_Religionis/isis.php > https://ia801200.us.archive.org/15/items/TheGoldenAss_201509/TheGoldenAsspenguinClassics-Apuleius.pdf **3.1 Queen of heaven Eastern Orthodox prayer:** > Rejoice, queen of Heaven and earth Who dost open unto us the gates of > Paradise! https://orthodox-europe.org/english/liturgics/prayers/akathist-joy-of-all-who-sorrow/ **3.2 Ancient church father on the title queen of heaven for Saint Mary:** **Epiphanius of Salamis c. 375 AD:** > the holy Virgin is anything more [than a woman], he called her “Woman” > as if by prophecy, because of the schisms and sects.... ....... the > error which has arisen on St. Mary’s account.... preparing the table > for the demon25 and not for God..... even though Mary is all fair, and > is holy and held in honor, she is not to be worshiped..... Such women > **should be silenced by Jeremiah, and not frighten the world. They must > not say, “We honor the queen of heaven**.”... > > > **Ephiphanius of Salamis - Panarion - against collyridians 8** > > Page 644 in the pdf > https://ia800501.us.archive.org/18/items/EpiphaniusPanarionBksIIIII1/Epiphanius%20-%20_Panarion_%20-%20Bks%20II%20%26%20III%20-%201.pdf **Sources about - Epiphanius and the other church leaders:** Надо отметить, что Епифаний Кипрский занимался поиском различных христианских исторических сочинений при написании своих книг, а также был знаком и общался лично практически со всеми предстоятелями поместных христианских церквей. **Translated to English:** It should be noted that Epiphanius of Cyprus was engaged in searching for various Christian historical works when writing his books, and was also acquainted with and communicated personally with almost all the heads of the local Christian churches. https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1%D0%B2%D1%8F%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BE_%D0%98%D0%BE%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%BD%D0%B0_%D0%91%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B0_%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%B7%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B5_%D0%BE%D0%B1_%D1%83%D1%81%D0%BF%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B8_%D0%A1%D0%B2%D1%8F%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%B9_%D0%91%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%B8%D1%86%D1%8B ------------------------------ **4. From some church fathers we learn about the praying towards the East and it seems that the physical sun is connected somehow to the true light. Christ the Creator of that light (the sun) as Pope Leo 1 says:** (Short quotes from different church fathers - Clement of Alexandria, Origen, Tertullian, Basil the great, Ambrose, Augustine, John Damascus ... and pope Leo 1 about very similar tradition that he refutes) > We stand at prayer we face the East, where the rise of the heavens > begins ...facing the light! As the symbol of the Holy Spirit, it loves > the (radiant) East, that figure of Christ...while its body is turned > toward a heavenly body...you turned to the east...to Christ...looks > upon him directly...look always to the east, where is the rising Sun > of justice... ...that the soul is looking upon the dawn of the true > light...In correspondence with the manner of the sun's rising, prayers > are made looking towards the sunrise in the east. Whence also the most > ancient temples looked towards the west,(Pagan temples?) that people > might be taught to turn to the east when facing the images....the East > is the direction that must be assigned to His worship…...but few > know.....the reasons for this, I think, are not easily discovered by > anyone...But this tradition of the apostles is unwritten. https://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/109124/pope-leo-i-and-worshiping-towards-the-east-how-can-he-say-all-this-and-still-w **Pope Leo 1 seems to be against this practice, also the most ancient churches in Rome seems to be not oriented with entrances from West so people to be able to pray towards the East:** > The foolish practice of some who turn to the sun and bow to it is > reprehensible > > such a system of teaching proceeds also the ungodly practice of > certain foolish folk who worship the sun as it rises > > even some Christians think it is so proper to do this > > We are full of grief and vexation that this should happen, which is > partly due to the fault of ignorance and partly to the spirit of > heathenism: > > because although some of them do perhaps worship the Creator of that > fair light rather than the Light itself, which is His creature, > > yet we must abstain even from the appearance of this observance: > > for if one who has abandoned the worship of gods, finds it in our own > worship, will he not hark back again to this fragment of his old > superstition, > > as if it were allowable, when he sees it to be common both to > Christians and to infidels? (The apostle is saying similar thing - 2 > Cor. 6:15) From Sermon XXVII (c. 450 AD) of Pope Leo I https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/360327.htm **The apostle:** > **2 Cor. 6:15** And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? > > **Romans 1:25** Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is > blessed for ever. Amen. -------------------------------------------------- ----------------------- **5. The winter solstice birthday of Horus - 25 December for the roman times? Also celebrating the conception 9 months before the birth:** > Thus we shall attack the many boring people who find pleasure in > associating the activities of these gods with the seasonal changes of > the atmosphere or with the growths, sowing, and plowing of crops, and > who say that Osiris is being buried when the corn is sown and hidden > in the earth, and that he lives again and reappears when it begins to > sprout. For this reason it is said that Isis, when she was aware of > her being pregnant, put on a protective amulet on the sixth day of > Phaophi, **and at the winter solstice gave birth to Harpocrates,** > imperfect and prematurely born, amid plants that burgeoned and > sprouted before their season . . . **and they are said to celebrate the > days of her confinement after the spring equinox.** > > **(Plutarch, On Isis and Osiris, ISIS AND OSIRIS, 377 )** https://archive.org/stream/plutarch-isis-osiris-loeb/Plutarch_Isis_Osiris_Loeb_djvu.txt https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A2008.01.0239%3Asection%3D65 -------------------------------------------------------------- **5.1 About the winter solstice on 25 December, by ancient writings:** **(Today the winter solstice is around 21-22 December - but for the romans it seems to be 25 December)** **From sources:** https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b5/The_natural_history_of_Pliny_1855.pdf > Roman writers regularly quote the date of the solstice as the 25th of > December. > > **Columella, a 1st century CE agricultural writer, on the subject (De > re rustica 9.14.12):** > > ab occasu Vergiliarum ad brumam, quae fere conficitur **circa VIII > kalendas Ianuarii** in octava parte Capricorni ... > > From the setting of the Pleiades to midwinter, which occurs roughly > **around the 8th day before the kalends of January** (i.e. 25 December), > at 8° in Capricorn ... > > > > **Pliny the Elder, also 1st cent. CE (Natural history 18.221):** > > ... omnesque eae differentiae fiunt in octavis partibus signorum, > bruma Capricorni **a. d. VIII kal. Ian.** fere. > > ... and all these changes occur at 8° in the (zodiacal) signs, the > winter solstice in Capricorn on roughly **the 8th day before the kalends > of January** (i.e. 25 December). > https://kiwihellenist.blogspot.com/2015/12/christmas-and-its-supposed-pagan-links.html > > > > http://novaroma.org/nr/Roman_dates#Table_of_Dates > > Table about 25 - http://novaroma.org/nr/Roman_dates#Table_of_Dates http://novaroma.org/nr/Roman_dates#Table_of_Dates -------------------------------------------- **6. The halo on the icons as the pagan tradition for the "gods":** ------------------------------------- https://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/112600/do-the-catholic-orthodox-believe-that-the-halo-is-apostolic-unwritten-traditio https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9C%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BF%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%86%D0%B0 https://mount-athos.org/en/mount-athos/icons-relics/galaktotrofousa-hilandar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nursing_Madonna https://folia.unifr.ch/documents/306232/files/Bacci_2007pisabizantina.pdf https://es.pinterest.com/pin/612348880621533991/ https://russianicons.wordpress.com/2016/06/23/the-nursing-goddess-from-isis-to-mary/ https://www.academia.edu/113383765/Veiling_and_Head_Covering_in_Late_Antiquity_Between_Ideology_Aesthetics_and_Practicality https://iconreader.wordpress.com/2011/07/03/milk-giver-icon-not-scandalized-by-the-incarnation/ https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9C%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BF%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%86%D0%B0 https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/article/jesus-portrayals -------------------------------------------- Date 7th-6th centuries B.C. https://www.mfab.hu/artworks/1812/ Isis lactans (Isis nursing Harpocrates). Marble, approximately one and a half meters high. Vatican Museums, Pio Clementino Gallery A GRAECO-EGYPTIAN TERRACOTTA ISIS AND HARPOCRATES CIRCA 2ND-1ST CENTURY B.C. https://www.christies.com/lot/a-graeco-egyptian-terracotta-isis-and-harpocrates-circa-5546815/?intobjectid=5546815&lid=1 Roman terracotta statuette of Isis lactans, from Herculaneum 1st c. CE Soprintendenza Pompei, inv. 76724 Photographed on display in the exhibition "Il Nilo a Pompeii: visioni d'Egitto nel mondo romano" (The Nile at Pompeii: visions of Egypt in the Roman world) at the Museo Egizio in Torino, Piemonte, Italy.... https://www.flickr.com/photos/dandiffendale/30258001226 Statuette, Isis, Horus 664–30 B.C. Julia Domna, AR denarius, Rome mint. IVLIA DOMNA AVG, draped bust right / FECVNDITAS, Fecunditas seated right, holding one child in her arms and and another standing at her feet. RIC 534; RSC 42. https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/ric/julia_domna/t.html All this is from sources on the internet, I can not guarantee how accurate it is.

According to the catholic and orthodox, is this apostolic unwritten tradition or adopted pagan tradition as mentioned by newadvent website? If it is adopted pagan tradition, then this means that other pagan traditions could be incorporated in the church? Do they fall under the anathema of the 7 ecumenical council, since these traditions are unwritten? If this is the case, would there be apostolic unwritten traditions and pagan unwritten traditions in the church as unwritten traditions? How should this be understood? ------------------------------------------- > **Second Council of Nicaea – 787 A.D. ( 7th ecumenical council):** > >If anyone rejects any written or unwritten tradition of the church, let > him be anathema. - [Second Council of Nicaea – 787 A.D.](https://www.papalencyclicals.net/councils/ecum07.htm) > **2 Thessalonians 2:15** > >Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and **hold the traditions** which ye have been taught, **whether by word, or our epistle**. > >https://biblehub.com/2_thessalonians/2-15.htm ---------------------------------------- > > **1 Corinthians 4:6** > >Now these things, brothers, I have applied to > myself and Apollos for your sakes, **so that in us you may learn not to > go beyond what is written**, so that no one of you will become puffed up > on behalf of one against the other. > > https://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/4-6.htm --------------------------------------- > **2 Cor 6:14-18** > >14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with > unbelievers: **for what fellowship hath righteousness with > unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 15 And > what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that > believeth with an infidel? 16 And what agreement hath the temple of > God with idols?** for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath > said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, > and they shall be my people. **17 Wherefore come out from among them, > and be ye separate,** saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; > and I will receive you. 18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall > be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. ---------------------------------------------- > **Deut. 12:30-31** > >30 **Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them**, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and > that thou inquire not after their gods, **saying, How did these nations > serve their gods? even so will I do likewise. 31 Thou shalt not do so > unto the LORD thy God:** **for every abomination to the LORD, which he > hateth, have they done unto their gods;** for even their sons and their > daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods. -------------------------------------------- This information is from the internet, I can not guarantee how accurate it is. But it seems that most if not all fake "gods" had halos before the Christian iconography? **Pagan:** **(Content notice: This post contains depictions of nudity that may be visible on the photos of the pagan mosaics.)** (2nd c. AD) Dionysos, Nike & Maenad (Bakche) - Zeugma mosaic - Triumph of Dionysus (Gaziantep Museum - Turkey) This pavement comes from the House of Poseidon. 1.https://www.flickr.com/photos/28433765@N07/50616496196 2.https://pbase.com/dosseman/dionysostriumf 3.https://pbase.com/dosseman/image/170042225 4.https://pbase.com/dosseman/daedalus ---------------------------------------------- (Naked!) (circa 3rd-4th c. AD.) A ROMAN MARBLE MOSAIC PANEL Depicting the goddess Venus rising from the sea, supported by two tritons, both with a human torso, equine legs and a fish-tailed lower body, the goddess haloed, holding a mirror in her left hand and a cosmetic applicator in her right, nude but for a mantle wrapped around her hips and legs, coiled bracelets on each wrist, a fish in the lower corners. 1.https://tr.pinterest.com/pin/1121607482184251399/ 2.https://www.christies.com/en/lot/lot-1818486 --------------------------------------------------------------- (3rd - 4th century) Mosaic from the House of Menander with Zeus. Room 20, Panel A (Seattle Art Museum) - (Daphne, suburb of Antioch, Antakya) (limestone and marble tesserae) 1.https://www.bridgemanimages.com/en/roman/mosaic-from-the-house-of-menander-with-zeus-3rd-4th-century-limestone-and-marble-tesserae/limestone-and-marble-tesserae/asset/6348234 2.https://antiochmuseumofart.org/house-of-menander/ 3.https://www.flickr.com/photos/mharrsch/22214048901/in/pool-ancient_mosaics_in_turkey/ https://www.meisterdrucke.ie/similar/943506.html ------------------------------------------------ (2nd-3rd c. AD,) Roman mosaic showing Apollo and Daphne, (Princeton University Art Museum) --------------------------------------------------------------- (Naked)“The Triumph of Neptune,” a late 2nd century CE mosaic from La Chebba, Tunisia. The central scene depicts a bearded Neptune riding in a chariot pulled by sea horses; he is flanked by his sons Triton and Proteus. The corners of the mosaic feature women and agricultural scenes representing the four seasons. As bringer and withholder of water, Neptune would have held agency over seasonal change. Bardo National Museum, Tunis, Tunisia https://mythopedia.com/topics/neptune/ https://smarthistory.org/mosaic-decoration-at-the-hammath-tiberias-synagogue/ --------------------------------------------------------------- (Naked) One of the mosaic panels located in the museum of the city of Shebha in southern Syria. Each panel recounts ancient Greek myths introduced by the Romans in the mid-third century AD. This panel depicts Aphrodite and Oris, the goddess of beauty. The panel depicts women and the goddess of love competing to win the weapons of the goddess Oris. The panel is decorated with inscriptions, ornaments, and numerous aesthetic motifs that illustrate the myth. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shahba ------------------------------------------------------------------- (123 AD) Roman mosaic of Hunting goddess Diana found in the (baths of Oceanus at Sabratha built in 123 AD) https://x.com/libyanhistory/status/873175058302324736 https://caffetteriadellemore.forumcommunity.net/?t=47244810 https://www.temehu.com/Cities_sites/museum-of-sabratha.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------- (Naked) Triumph of Poseidon and Amphitrite, showing the couple in procession. Detail of a large Roman mosaic from Cirta, Roman Africa (c. 315–325 AD, now at the Louvre) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neptune_%28mythology%29 ---------------------------------------------------- Hatay Archaeological Museum, Antakya, Turkey. Artemis, the fierce goddess of the hunt This mosaic of Artemis was discovered in the ancient city of Issus. It was found in the tepidarium of a bathhouse in the city. The 43-square-meter mosaic floor dates from Late Antiquity (3rd and 4th centuries AD). At the center of the mosaic is the goddess Artemis, ruler of the wild, and around her are figures of animals and plants. https://chroniquescynegetiques.com/2024/10/03/artemis-la-farouche-deesse-de-la-chasse/ -------------------------------------------------------- (Naked) Aion enthroned, holding a zodiac wheel in his right hand, a scepter in his left, his head surrounded by a holo or aura [3rd cent AD] - Arles, Musée de l'Arles antique - wm Aion (Greek: Αἰών) is a Hellenistic deity associated with time, the orb or circle encompassing the universe, and the zodiac. The "time" represented by Aion is unbounded, in contrast to Chronos as empirical time divided into past, present, and future. He is thus a god of eternity, associated with mystery religions concerned with the afterlife, such as the mysteries of Cybele, Dionysus, Orpheus, and Mithras. Source: wikipedia en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aion_(deity) --------------------------------------------------- A grand mosaic of Isis and Serapis, Roman early 3rd century https://www.pinterest.com/pin/341288477982180030/ Roman mosaic depicting Isis and Serapis (3rd cent. AD) https://the-avocado.org/2018/03/05/navigium-isidis-an-ancient-religious-festival/ https://medium.com/@ancient.rome/why-are-greek-roman-and-norse-mythologies-so-similar-8bb530da993c Emperor Septimius Severus (193–211 AD) as Serapis and his wife Julia Domna as Isis on a mosaic from Huwara, Egypt. Altes Museum, Berlin. Early 3rd century AD. https://www.augustaraurica.ch/assets/content/files/publikationen/Magazin-AR/AR-2017_2_Isis-Fortuna_Ruetti.pdf Roman mosaic depicting Isis and Serapis (3rd cent. CE) https://cjapedia.com/happy-navigium-isidis-march-5 ------------------------------------------------------- Niche with a polychrome mosaic of Silvanus Excavated in 1861 in the Palazzo Imperiale, in a room next to the mithraeum. Date: reign of Commodus or Septimius Severus. W. 0.87, h. 1.57, h. of Silvanus 0.71. With text OSTIAE EFFOS ANNO MDCCCLXI. In front of the niche a lamp for two wicks was found, perhaps inv. nr. 625. A relief of Silvanus was found nearby. Inv. nr. 10729. Benndorf-Schöne 1867, nr. 551. Arachne 20773. Photo: SO IV, Tav. 211. https://www.ostia-antica.org/museums/mus-vm-ml-silvanus.htm ------------------------------------------------ **Considered Christian:** (7th c. AD) - (634-730 AD) - Saint Demetrius of Thessaloniki. (Hagios Demetrios - Thessaloniki - Greece). Votive mosaic representation from the 7th century on the northeast pillar of the church. The basilica is famous for six extant mosaic panels, dated to the period between the latest reconstruction and the inauguration of the Byzantine Iconoclasm in 730. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagios_Demetrios https://www.macedonian-heritage.gr/HellenicMacedonia/en/img_C233a.html https://www.flickr.com/photos/60661697@N07/51241589472/in/pool-ancientgreece/ St. Demetrius. 7th century. Basilica of St. Demetrius, Thessaloniki. Mosaics on the pillars at the entrance to the altar and on the western wall of the main nave https://www.icon-art.info/bibliogr_item.php?id=21 https://macedonia.kroraina.com/en/rheb/rheb_mp.htm#1 -------------------------------------------------------- (No beard)(the end of 4th c. AD - the beg. of 5th c. AD) - (Christ)(Church of the Savior of the Latomou Monastery (Church of Hosios David)), (Thessaloniki, Greece). Mosaic with Christ and probably with Saints Peter and Paul on the sides - Lazarev attributes these mosaics to the end of the 5th beginning of the 6th century of the contemporary period to the Theodoric period connecting them to the mosaics of the basilica Sant'Apollinare Nuovo in Ravenna. 1.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Hosios_David 2.https://macedonia.kroraina.com/en/rheb/rheb_mp.htm#1 3.https://ru.pinterest.com/anastasyatatarn/chiesa-del-salvatore-del-monastero-di-latomou-chie/ https://vk.com/photo-35220730_312236388 https://flickr.com/photos/28433765@N07/15338085684/in/pool-2740017@N23/ Jesus Christ in glory. Mosaic in conch apses. End of 5— beginning of 6 th. c AD https://www.pravenc.ru/text/2581611.html https://ru.pinterest.com/pin/223843043962682817/ --------------------------------------- Justinian I AR Light Miliarense. Constantinople mint. Struck 527-537 AD. D N IVSTINIANVS P P AVG, pearl diademed, draped, cuirassed bust left / GLORIA ROMANORVM, Justinian, nimbate, standing facing, head left, raising hand and holding globe; star in right field; mintmark COB. DOC I 26. https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/byz/justinian_I/t.html -------------------------------------------- St. Aquilin Chapel, (4th c. AD ? Beg.of the 5th c. AD) mosaic. (No beard, short hair) https://www.flickr.com/photos/roger_joseph/5417358183/ https://vk.com/photo-35220730_312171522 Christ teaching the Apostles , Late4th century https://art.kunstmatrix.com/en/artwork/1882721/christ-teaching-apostles ------------------------------------------- Angelic Ranks (Dominions and Powers). Mosaic of the 7th century. Church of the Dormition of the Virgin Mary. Nicaea. https://vk.com/photo-35220730_312783865 Heavenly Powers. Mosaic of the Church of the Dormition of the Blessed Virgin Mary. 7th century? (7 c. AD?, 9 c. AD?) (2 sources 7c. AD and 1 source 9.c. AD) (9. C AD) https://azbyka.ru/otechnik/ikona/iskusstvo-vizantii-4-15-vekov/4 (7 c. AD) https://www.icon-art.info/bibliogr_item.php?id=21 https://www.pravenc.ru/text/200147.html ---------------------------------------- Santa Costanza in Rome. End of the 4th c. AD. The Mausoleum of Costanza (Constantina) (VIII) This 4th-century mausoleum was built under Constantine the Great for his daughter Constantina (Costanza), who died in 354 AD. His other daughter, Helena, is also buried here. The mosaics on the ambulatory vaults are an excellent example of late antique and early Christian art. https://vk.com/photo-35220730_312171210 https://www.flickr.com/photos/isawnyu/7556340750 https://www.mediastorehouse.com/search.html?search=ancient+halo ----------------------------------------- Mural painting of Jesus Christ from the catacomb of Commodilla. Rome, late 4th century. The symbols on either side are Alpha and Omega. Remember that the Christ is "beginning and end." Revelation 22, 13: "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last." https://vk.com/photo-35220730_312138059 https://diglib.library.vanderbilt.edu/diglib-fulldisplay.pl?SID=20250124369513274&code=act&RC=49950&Row=109 --------------------------------------------- Mosaic of Orans and Donors (5th-6th century) Church of St. Demetrius - Thessaloniki - Greece. Wall mosaics from the small north colonnade in the Church of St Demetrius Thessaloniki, saved from the fire of 1917, 5th-6th c. Museum of Byzantine Culture, Thessaloniki, Greece https://www.thebyzantinelegacy.com/demetrios-thessaloniki -------------------------------------------- Santa Pudenziana in Rome. 390AD - (401-417) AD The 4th century Basilica di Santa Pudenziana contains some fine mosaics, including this one in its apse. I gather that it is the earliest Christian mosaic to be found anywhere in Rome (it dates from 390). As the excellent Cadogan guide to Rome says, 'artists had yet to decide on the familiar iconography of the saints; here all have become honorary Roman citizens ... in their senatorial togas'. https://vk.com/photo-35220730_312171270 https://www.flickr.com/photos/24151047@N05/47846198011 https://my-passion.blog/2018/11/29/oldest-paintings-of-jesus/ ------------------------------------------------- The Good Shepherd. Mid-5th century. Mausoleum of Galla Placidia, Ravenna. Mosaic in the lunette Лазарев 1986 - История византийской живописи. Т. 2. OCR hires #21.pdf https://www.icon-art.info/bibliogr_item.php?id=21 https://vk.com/photo-35220730_312236302 The Good Shepherd , c 425 AD Mausoleum of Galla Placidia, Ravenna, Italy https://art.kunstmatrix.com/en/artwork/1882044/good-shepherd https://my-passion.blog/2018/11/29/oldest-paintings-of-jesus/ https://byzantinenews.blogspot.com/2014/02/cfp-miracles-and-wonders-in-antiquity.html https://azbyka.ru/otechnik/ikona/iskusstvo-vizantii-4-15-vekov/1 ---------------------------------------------------- Baptism of Christ and the Twelve Apostles. Mid-5th century. Orthodox Baptistery, Ravenna. Mosaics in the dome Лазарев 1986 - История византийской живописи. Т. 2. OCR hires #21.pdf pg. 32 https://www.icon-art.info/bibliogr_item.php?id=21 Domed Mosaic Ceiling , 547 AD Basilica of San Vitale, Ravenna, Italy. https://art.kunstmatrix.com/en/artwork/1882765/domed-mosaic-ceiling Ravenna. Mosaic in Baptistery of Neon. 5th century. Baptism of Jesus. Italy. https://www.alamy.com/ravenna-mosaic-in-baptistery-of-neon-5th-century-baptism-of-jesus-italy-image238557621.html https://www.flickr.com/photos/35409814@N00/11904625526/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/60661697@N07/17795977821/in/pool-1307009@N23/ -------------------------------------------- (River “god”? to left?) Arian Baptistery in Ravenna. Late 5th-early 6th c. AD. Mosaics in the dome https://www.icon-art.info/bibliogr_item.php?id=21 https://www.flickr.com/photos/bobbex/52646912056 https://flickr.com/photos/27305838@N04/15953924945/in/pool-2740017@N23/ ------------------------------------------------------ (Dark skin) 526-530 AD.Christ - Church of Santi Cosma e Damiano. Rome. https://vk.com/photo-35220730_313024499 https://israelandpalestinediary.blogspot.com/2015/12/was-jesus-palestinian-or-was-jesus.html ------------------------------------------------------ Jesus Christ flanked by Saints Peter and Paul · Catacombs of Saints Peter and Marcellinus, Rome, 4th century AD. https://my-passion.blog/2018/11/29/oldest-paintings-of-jesus/ Christ between Saint Peter and Saint Paul, above four martyrs worshiping the Mystic Lamb, 4th century (dome of the Catacombs of the Saints Peter and Marcellinus, Rome). https://arsartisticadventureofmankind.wordpress.com/2014/07/07/early-western-christian-art-during-the-iiird-ivth-and-vth-centuries-the-painting-of-the-catacombs/ ----------------------------------- Year of Object(s) Creation: 550 A.D. (approximate) Provenience Nation: Cyprus Provenience Location: Church of the Panayia Kanakaria Year Removed from Findspot: 1975 (approximate) https://research.cgu.edu/cultural-property-disputes-resource/cpdr/church-of-panagia-kanakaria-mosaics/ ---------------------------------- **Sources:** 1. In early Christian art the nimbus certainly is not found on images of God and celestial beings, but only on figures borrowed from profane art, and in Biblical scenes; 2. Hence it follows that the Bible furnished no example for the bestowal of a halo upon individual saintly personages. 3. As a matter of fact the nimbus, as an inheritance from ancient art tradition, was readily adopted and ultimately found the widest application because the symbol of light for all divine, saintly ideals is offered by nature and not infrequently used in Scripture. 4. The nimbus of early Christian art manifests only in a few particular drawings, its relationship with that of late antiquity. 5. In the first half of the fourth century, Christ received a nimbus only when portrayed seated upon a throne or in an exalted and princely character, but it had already been used since Constantine, in pictures of the emperors, and was emblematic, not so much of divine as of human dignity and greatness. 6. The number of personages who were given a halo increased rapidly, until towards the end of the sixth century the use of symbols in the Christian Church became as general as it had formerly been in pagan art. https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11080b.htm ---------------------------------------------------- 1. NIMB (from Latin nimbus – cloud) – a glow around the head – as a sign of divine power, originated in the East. In Ancient Egypt and Mesopotamia, deities were depicted with a solar disk above their heads or with rays coming out of their heads. Later in Ancient Greece, the god of light Apollo and the god of the sun Helios began to be depicted with a radiant halo around their heads. The pagan halo is a symbol of the shining sun, divine flame, sacred light. 2. THE IDEA OF THE CHRISTIAN HALO was formed only in the 4th century. In Christianity, the halo is a symbol of participation in the essence of the One God. Since "God is light" (1 John 1:5), the halo is part of this light. The halo reveals the essence of Christ as the Heavenly Light revealed to the world. On the vault of the cubicle of Leo in the catacombs of Commodilla is one of the first images of Christ with a halo around his head. This fresco dates back to the second half of the 4th century. Jesus Christ. Second half of the 4th century. Fresco. Catacombs of Commodilla, Rome. 3. In the iconography of Angels, the halo becomes a mandatory attribute in the 5th century. 4. The nimbuses of the Apostles and saints appear only at the end of the 5th century. 5. A cross-shaped (cross-shaped) halo is a round halo with a cross placed inside it, which symbolizes the atoning sacrifice of Christ in the name of saving humanity. Among the earliest known images of Christ with a cross-shaped halo is a bas-relief from a sarcophagus of Constantinople origin from the beginning of the 5th century, depicting Christ with the apostles. The relief is poorly preserved, but traces of the crossbars of the cross can be seen on the halo. 6. By 6 th. c. AD the cross on the nimbus of Christ becomes almost mandatory. Ovchinnikov A. N. Symbolism of Christian Art. – M.: Rodnik, 1999. Pp. 10–19. https://dzen.ru/a/ZXl5T1_d5C72wmOv -------------------------------

I came across a blog post by a platonist in which he critiqued the traditional Christian understanding of God and evil given God's omnibenevolence and omniscience, saying: > Augustine's claim that evil is not a substance but a privation of good > was designed to absolve God of direct responsibility for evil's > existence. However, this position does not escape the more profound > paradox that God created beings who could lapse into privation and did > so with full foreknowledge of the consequences. The free will defense > only complicates the issue: if God grants free will knowing it will be > misused, the divine act of creation becomes entangled with the > emergence of moral evil. Moreover, if the will can remain oriented > toward the good only through divine grace, then free will itself seems > limited or dependent in a way that undermines its explanatory value. > The paradox intensifies when considering the role of Satan, whose > rebellious agency destabilizes the coherence of monotheistic > sovereignty. If Satan undermines God's purposes, divine omnipotence is > weakened; if Satan acts only with God's permission, then divine > benevolence is compromised. Either interpretation raises problems that > the privation theory cannot reconcile. These tensions reveal a more > profound structural paradox at the heart of Christian theodicy. In a > cosmos created ex nihilo by an omnipotent and omnibenevolent God, > nothing can exist independently of divine will or permission. > Consequently, all conditions that make evil possible, creaturely > freedom, vulnerability, corruptibility, and the existence of tempters > are ultimately grounded in God's creative act. Christian theodicy thus > attempts to balance divine goodness with divine sovereignty, but the > metaphysical architecture of monotheism forces a contradiction: either > God is powerful enough to prevent evil but chooses not to, or God > wills a world in which evil inevitably emerges, making evil indirectly > a by-product of divine creative intention. Augustine's partial > incorporation of Neoplatonic ideas helps articulate evil as a > metaphysical deficiency. Yet, even this philosophical refinement > cannot compensate for a more fundamental issue: Christian theology's > consolidation of causality in a single omnipotent agent ensures that > God remains tied to every aspect of cosmic order and disorder alike. > The result is a system in which the existence of evil perpetually > threatens either the goodness or the sovereignty of the creator, and > the tradition's attempts to resolve this tension never entirely > eliminate its underlying contradictions. > > (Flavius Julianus Mithridaticus, *Evil as Shadow, Heroism as Form: An > Indo-European View of Theodicy*, The New Platonic Academy) To restate his critiques: - God created people with the ability to be evil and knew of the consequences because of his foreknowledge. He created people knowing they would use their free will for evil which makes evil a by-product of his creation. This seems to bring his omnibenevolence into question. If I created a simulation with the parameters allowing for characters in it to be evil then I'm responsible, at least partly, for evil existing in my simulation. - If Satan can thwart God's purposes [such as his desire for everyone to have faith in Him and live according to His moral law (my comment)], then it calls his omnipotence into question. And if Satan only acts with God's permission, then God's benevolence is compromised. If someone is stealing something or hurting someone and I allow it to happen when I have the ability to stop it, then I'm being evil. In Catholicism, being able to prevent or stop something evil and not doing it is the sin of omission. A more accurate allegory with regards to Satan's acts that are permitted by God: I'm standing in the way of an assailant and their victim and when the assailant asks if they can attack their victim, I nod and step aside, allowing the evil to take place. Maybe my allegory is off, but I'm having difficulty seeing his omnibenevolence given this. My allegory somewhat reminded me of the book of Job where Job, who is a holy man has his life and loved ones destroyed after God gives Satan permission and if I'm remembering correctly, God didn't give Job an explanation and instead told him about the world He created. - In a world created by God as understood by Christians, nothing exists apart from God's will or permission. Either God is powerful enough to prevent evil, but chooses not to or God willed a world where evil would inevitably exist, making evil a by-product of his creation. He presents a sound critique of the traditional Christian understanding of God and evil and it completely stumped me so if you have any thoughts, please share them because I don't know how to rebut him. Thank you in advance to anyone who tries to tackle this.

There's a Christian podcast on YouTube named [*A Stronger Faith*](https://www.youtube.com/@AStrongerFaith/) , which also has a [website](https://www.astrongerfaith.org/) . The podcast focuses on interviewing Christians about their spiritual experiences, conversion experiences, their testimonies, and so on. The host is [Stacy McCants](https://www.astrongerfaith.org/about) . My question is motivated by Stacy's reference to John 17:3 in this [short video](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/5Ctpqezp0Nk?feature=share) : > You can experience God, so whatever doubts you might have in your mind of "am I just believing something that I've been taught because just in case there really is a hell I don't wanna go there" or have an encounter and experience him. You experienced God. People kind of get in our comments sometimes and talk about "don't be trying to go for the emotional experiences." I think God wants us to experience him. I think a lie of the enemy is that we should not seek experiences with God. That it should just be from an intellectual "just get the book, believe what the book says" perspective. And I can't read what Jesus said in John 17:3 and then say he doesn't want us experiencing him. He says "this is eternal life, that they know you, the one true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." Not that they know *about* you, and *about* Jesus. He says that they *know you*, and know his son. You cannot know somebody without experiencing them. Stacy posits that you cannot know someone without experiencing them. If we apply this to God, then John 17:3 would implicitly suggest that eternal life involves knowing God and Jesus, which, by his logic, means we ought to experience God and Jesus. Interestingly, Stacy McCants's podcast *A Stronger Faith* largely revolves around spiritual or supernatural experiences shared by the Christians he interviews. I suspect Stacy is a charismatic Christian, which might suggest a charismatic bias in his interpretation of John 17:3. **What are the Catholic Church and Eastern Orthodox Church's interpretations of John 17:3? Is knowing God and Jesus typically understood as involving experiences, and if so, what kinds of experiences are usually understood to be implied?** **Are there significant differences and/or similarities between both churches as to how they interpret John 17:3?**

I am not asking the difference between these, I think I have an okay grasp on that. I am generally asking, what truly does the difference of who Christ was, and the specific way he was divine, make to the individual? I grew up "protestant" *(which should be obvious based on my question)* but specifically, I grew up LDS, and because I grew up LDS, I don't think I have ever seen a Catholic church, let alone a Orthodox Church. *(And no, I am no longer mormon, and I haven't been mormon since like the age of 11. I disagree with pretty much everything.)* And so I have been kind of dabbling in Orthodoxy in my own spare time. And generally, I think I have a very surface level seperation of the differences between the four Orthodox, Antiochene is Assyrian, Miaphysite is Oriental Orthodox, and Chalcedonian is Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic. But just to be sure I know the definitions, 1. Antiochene is like, two distinct natures which are seperate until union? 2. Miaphysite is unified divine and human? 3. Chalcedonian is both natures in one at the same time? But what does this difference really make in the interpretation of the ecumenical councils, and the general bible?

My research has thus far turned up only one (seemingly small) detail: The Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, and Eastern Catholic Churches believe that **Mary died a regular, albeit peaceful earthly death** and shortly thereafter her body was glorified and taken up into heaven. This is the Dormition of Mary; she died and was taken up. Roman Catholicism emphasizes that Mary was taken bodily into heaven **without definitively saying whether she died first** and Roman Catholics are free to believe either that she died or did not. This is the Assumption of Mary; she may or may not have died prior to being taken up. Both traditions are based upon extra biblical writings and tradition with no direct basis in Scripture, both traditions held to the Dormition view until late in the middle ages, and both still ultimately affirm that Mary was taken bodily into heaven. Is this really the only difference between the two; that the East insists that Mary died and that the West is unsure whether she died? What are the theological and (if any) practical implications of this difference?

This question regarding whether the Catholic Church considers the Assyrian Church of the East to be heretics made me wonder: are *any* Christians outside the Catholic and Orthodox churches *not* considered heretical by the Catholic Church?

**Are there examples of Marian Apparitions to Orthodox faithful, Protestants or non-christians?** After reading this [question](https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/106340/25495) (**Best arguments against Marian apparitions?**), it got me wondering if there are examples of Mary, the Mother of Jesus, appearing to the Orthodox, Protestants (or other denominations) or non-christians? I am desiring an answer that has examples of all three fields if possible.

Both Orthodox and Catholic Christians believe and affirm that the Blessed Virgin Mary is the ***ark of the new covenant***, but is there a scriptural basis for this and if so where do we see this in the Old or the New Testament?

I was looking up some stuff and noticed that multiple sources claim that the Catholics and Orthodox have a different view on the "first sin" or "original sin". - There is this answered question within the exchange. Which is what I've found through research as well. - As the Catechism says, “original sin is called ‘sin’ only in an analogical sense: it is a sin ‘contracted’ and not ‘committed’—a state and not an act” (CCC 404). - The Council of Carthage (418) is considered Ecumenical by the Orthodox Church, and it contained the doctrine of "Original Sin"... so no issue here. - Instead of original sin, which is used in Western Christianity, the Orthodox Church uses the term ancestral sin to describe the effect of Adam’s sin on mankind. We do this to make one key distinction; we didn’t sin in Adam (as the Latin mistranslation of Romans 5:12 implies). Rather we sin because Adam’s sin made us capable of doing so. The Greek word for sin, amartema, refers to an individual act, indicating that Adam and Eve alone assume full responsibility for the sin in the Garden of Eden. The Orthodox Church never speaks of Adam and Eve passing guilt on to their descendants, as did Augustine. Instead, each person bears the guilt of his or her own sins. (Saint John the evangelist orthodox church ) - The OCA website claims the "West" understand the doctrine of Original guilt. It is possible they meant the protestants and not the Catholics, but in my experience the Western Church is usually the catholics. - There is the OrthoCuban website who provides a summary, but perhaps it is just the authors flawed understanding of the words used? ------------- As the two churches appear to be still maintaining that there is a difference between Original Sin and Ancestral/First Sin... what exactly is the difference? Because as far as I can tell, there seems to be no difference. Both the catholics and orthodox churches say we suffer the consequences of the first sin, not the guilt. I think the difference is that the Catholic Church defines sin as a violation, and for the Orthodox sin is the separation from God. Is that the issue?

Although the Eastern Orthodox Church does not maintain inherited guilt, as does the Roman Catholic Church, it does maintain that mankind bears the consequences of Adam’s sin, and that those consequences involve physical corruption and death. But does the Orthodox Church also maintain that man’s tendency to sin is worse post‐Fall than pre‐Fall, being inherited from Adam? Does the Eastern Orthodox Church believe that humans inherited an inward tendency to sin (sin nature) from Adam that Adam himself acquired only after the Fall? Or would the Eastern Orthodox Church believe that man’s inherent tendency to sin is roughly the same as that of Adam and Eve’s?

There is much discussion in secular academia about the possibility/impossibility of Christ being a God? And there are sects *within religious circles* who diss the idea of Christ really being Deity. Some of those sects fly under the banner of "Christianity." ***Since a "Christian"--in normal patois--is defined as someone who is a disciple of Christ***, it follows that that disciple would believe and teach faithfully whatever the essence of Christ is. But many interpret the Bible as declaring that ***Christ taught He was Deity (God in the flesh)***. >Israelites...whose are the Fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen. (Romans 9:5) >I came down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of Him that sent me. (John 6:38; also 8:24,42) >Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed on Him, "If you continue in My word, then you are my disciples indeed. And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. (John 8:31-32) Note that the second half of this verse is engraved on the portals of Harvard University! Yet none would say that Harvard wishes to promote Christ's divinity. Could all others who claim to be Christian, whether sect or individual, ***but do not believe in His divinity*** still legitimately fall under the umbrella of the title, ***Christian***? Or is that deceptive? Is that unwarranted? ***Is that contradictory to the words of Jesus in these verses?*** >For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form. (Colossians 2:9, NIV)

In the book "Rock and Sand" by Josiah Trenham he criticises Evangelicals for their emphasis on personal purity. I didn't understand this and, to the best of my ability, I don't remember him elaborating what he meant by this. There was an Orthodox apologist in the early days of Youtube who used to talk about religion while smoking. For me, coming from a Protestant background, this was quite shocking. Even as I write this, there is another (in)famous Orthodox man on Youtube from North America who also smokes. Could someone explain what Orthodoxy and possibly Roman Catholicism mean when they criticise us Protestants for our emphasis on personal purity. PS: 1. While I use cigarette smoking as an example, this question isn't specifically about smoking. 2. In the Protestant sect I grew up in, tobacco, betel nut and many other drugs were strictly off limits even in the privacy of our homes. We would be told that the body is God's temple and warned against stumbling others(Romans 14:13-23). 3. The quote from Trenham's book is as follows: > In the Protestant world today the majority of evangelicals are from > Holiness, Pentecostal or Charismatic congregations. They are the > fastest growing segment of Evangelicalism. The most influential > Pentecostal denomination is the Assemblies of God with a membership in > the millions. The Great Awakenings defined the Evangelicalism of the > 18th and 19th centuries. But the 20th century has been the century of > the Holiness, Pentecostal and Charismatic movements. > > On the first day of the new century, in Topeka Kansas, Agnes Osmond, a > student at Charles Parham’s Bethel bible college began speaking in > tongues. News spread and an African-American hotel waiter, William J. > Seymour carried this Pentecostal gospel with him to Los Angeles in > early 1906 and speaking in tongues erupted on April 9th at a house on > Bonnie Brae Street where Parham was staying in Azusa California. The > bible college moved to a warehouse at 312 Azusa Street, where for the > next several years, the Azusa Street mission promoted divine healings, > Pentecostal enthusiasm and missionaries to promote the Pentecostal > movement throughout the world. This Pentecostal movement not only > replicated Pentecostal churches throughout the world, but deeply > influenced both established denominations and even the Roman-Catholic > church. > > These movements share in common a quest for a higher spiritual life > sometimes called a second blessing. Leaders of this movement have > placed tremendous emphasis on moral purity and have given the > Protestant churches a moral uplift. At the same time many of these > movements have established an externalized ethos in which dancing, > drinking and smoking rather than pride, vainglory and self-love are > the great taboos to be avoided and abstinence from these external > vices is seen as the defining characteristic of holiness. Such > erroneous visions of holiness have led evangelicals to the promotion > of such things as teetotalism which is seen as the demonisation of > recreation.

The book of 3rd Maccabees is included in the Eastern Orthodox canon, a practice which dates back at least to the 85th canon of the Apostolic Canons ratified by the Quinisext Council in 692. I had never heard of the book, nor had I heard the story contained in the book, until I purchased an Eastern Orthodox Bible. Wikipedia devotes a whole paragraph to talking about how it has generally been overlooked by theologians throughout history. **Why have theologians who consider this book canonical not placed greater emphasis on it?** Anyone who reads it cannot deny it is an interesting story, and I am sure that if it is incorporated in the canon, it must also be considered instructive. By contrast, the other deuterocanonical books have received a great deal of attention, as have the books of the protocanon.

I am a Russian Orthodox Christian, and I know other Russian Orthodox Christians who consider a woman's menses to be impure. As a woman, this monthly bleeding is not saying that I am evil or bad during that time. I am simply not pure. Here is a good explanation of this. However, I know we Orthodox Christians plan our weddings around the bride's menstruation cycle, because she should be completely pure at that time. Do other Christian denominations do this too?

An answer was given from the Orthodox perspective to a question about contemplative prayer, regarding their practice of hesychasm. The stated goals were noble, with much Scriptural support. My question is in regard to the Jesus prayer. Humility is of course required of us as we approach the God Who dwells in unapproachable light (1 Tim. 6:16). The Jesus prayer states this: "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner!" It is repeated over and over in an attempt to be like the publican in humility. I have, in fact, repeated this same prayer in my heart many times. But does it not in actuality represent doubt, not faith? Do Orthodox Christians believe that Christ's death has already exemplified His mercy to us, and that our role is to simply believe and receive that truth in our hearts, and then live accordingly? In other words, do we need to continually ask for mercy, or is it just a reminder of the mercy that we have already been shown?

The subject of the "calvinist" Patriarch of the Orthodox Church comes up from time to time, with the 2 sides presenting conflicting versions of events. Here is what I am certain of already. 1. Lucaris was viewed as having heretical beliefs as viewed by the rest of the Orthodox Church at that time. 2. There was a tension between the Orthodox, Catholic, and Protestant faiths. 3. There were other ottomans who didn't like Lucaris. The Execution was deceptive from the start, as Lucaris was taken away as if to be banished. But later out of sight of the majority of people they strangled him with a bowstring. --- #### Question: Are there any sources or evidence that indicate one of the 4 parties mentioned were directly involved? Reason: A common assertion is that the orthodox church was attempting to remove him at "any cost", though I can't find evidence to support that.

I just read https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/52081/117426 and felt inspired to ask the same question from a Protestant perspective, which also relates closely to my previous question [here](https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/108199/117426) . According to Wikipedia, the *[Philokalia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philokalia)* is described as follows: > The Philokalia (Ancient Greek: φιλοκαλία, lit. 'love of the > beautiful', from φιλία philia "love" and κάλλος kallos "beauty") is "a > collection of texts written between the 4th and 15th centuries by > spiritual masters" of the mystical hesychast tradition of the Eastern Orthodox Church. They were originally written for the guidance and instruction of monks in "the practice of the contemplative life". The collection was compiled in the 18th century by Nicodemus the Hagiorite and Macarius of Corinth based on the codices 472 (12th century), 605 (13th century), 476 (14th century), 628 (14th century) and 629 (15th century) from the library of the monastery of Vatopedi, Mount Athos. > > Although these works were individually known in the monastic culture of Greek Orthodox Christianity before their inclusion in the Philokalia, their presence in this collection resulted in a much wider readership due to its translation into several languages. The earliest translations included a Church Slavonic language translation of selected texts by Paisius Velichkovsky (Dobrotolublye, Добротолю́бїе) in 1793, a Russian translation by Ignatius Bryanchaninov in 1857, and a five-volume translation into Russian (Dobrotolyubie) by Theophan the Recluse in 1877. There were subsequent Romanian, Italian, French, German, Spanish, Finnish and Arabic translations. OrthodoxWiki.org also has an [article](https://orthodoxwiki.org/Philokalia) on the *Philokalia*: > The Philokalia is a collection of writings, mostly centering on practicing the virtues and spiritual living in a monastery. In recent decades it has become an important resource for Orthodox Christians, laity and clergy alike, in personal living and in some ways has achieved status as a major secondary spiritual written resource (after the primary one, Holy Scripture) along with St. John Climacus' The Ladder of Divine Ascent. The original question aimed at Catholics says: > The absence of a "mysticism"-oriented text in Catholic Christianity > has always struck me. The *Philokalia* are an incredible source of > ascetic instructions for the believer who seeks communion with God. > > (1) In what consideration do Catholic Christians keep the Philokalia? > And, (2) is there a similar text in the Catholic tradition? I would like to ask similar questions of Protestants: 1. What do Protestants think of the spiritual teachings found in the *Philokalia*? 2. Are there Protestant traditions with teachings emphasizing ascetic practices and mystical spirituality?