Where did Jesus go when he died? At the crucifixion, Jesus says to the other condemned man (Luke 23:43) > And Jesus said to him, “Truly I tell you, **today you will be with Me in Paradise**.” [The Apostle's Creed](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostles%27_Creed) says: > who suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried, **descended into hell**, rose again from the dead on the third day, If Jesus descended into hell until his resurrection, he could not have gone to Paradise on the same day. Is the Apostles' Creed wrong?

Without going into the specifics of three days and three nights or some configuration, where and what did Jesus go and do between the time of His death/burial and His resurrection, if anything? We know that Apostles Creed says "[He] descended into hell" (or [*sheol*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheol), [Abraham's bosom](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosom_of_Abraham), [*hades*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hades)), although see here . So, what happened? I'm looking for any of the following denominational points of view: Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican, other Protestants.

From the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, Jesus taught that both died but went to different destinations in the afterlife. Lazarus was comforted in Abraham's bossom which is paradise and the rich man received in Hades. These two destinations are temporary as the saints in paradise will later move to the new heaven and the new earth while those who wait in Hades will move from there to the lake of fire. I do believe that paradise is full of the saints from the old testament and the new testament such Moses, Elijah, Elisha and the rest. They also await the ultimate resurrection of every human being that has ever walked over the face of the earth on the last day. Are these destinations real or Jesus was symbolically speaking about what will happen after judgment where some people will be exalted to life and others sent to the lake of fire ?

I've been listening to this pastor from AoC Network that has been talking about Hades as there is/was a place of torment and a place of peace, before Christ's resurrection. This is where people who God deemed as men of God or Godly men and women went before the resurrection of Jesus on the Cross. He says he believes (because the bible is not clear on this subject) that people who have died now days who have not had the opportunity to know enough about Jesus or know who he is, can make a decision to invite Jesus into their heart to be their savior, this is where they go. This sounds like the Catholic belief in Purgatory. I know the Bible isn't clear on the matter of "The Bosom of Abraham" in today's world, but I've been taught that "The Bosom of Abraham" was closed off when Jesus came back for his disciples after his death and brought them to heaven with Him. Now, this pastor from AoC says he believes that the Hades that *was* called "The Bosom of Abraham" (which this pastor describes as a place of peace) still exists (but of course is *not* called "The Bosom of Abraham" because Abraham is up in heaven,) for those who have not heard of Jesus or had the opportunity to accept his free Gift of Salvation, i.e Babies who are unborn and those who die as infant babies who cannot know Jesus yet, because they cannot understand yet. My question is: "Does the side of Hades that was once "The Bosom of Abraham" still exist? Is this what the Catholic's call Purgatory, and where is this found in the Bible?"

How do non-Trinitarian Christians respond to the question *where did Jesus go and what did he do between His death and resurrection?* *** *** This question is asked as a parallel to this existing question . Since the scoping of the earlier question was tightened to specifically solicit the input of Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican, and other Protestants, and a variety of users had offered answers from other viewpoints, this question is being asked to provide a place to respond from these other viewpoints. Scoping for this question would certainly include The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Jehovah's Witnesses, Biblical Unitarians, and the Swedenborgian Church. However, if between this question and its predecessor there is a Christian viewpoint that is still excluded, I would be happy to edit the scoping of this question so that between the two questions a more complete set of Christian denominations can be represented.

Matthew 7:21-23 (ESV): > 21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 **On that day** many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 **And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.**’ *"On that day ..."* -- what day? Is Jesus talking about the day of his Second Coming / Judgement Day? If so, then it means that those individuals didn't know they weren't saved until *that* day. However, if there is an [intermediate state](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermediate_state) in which both saved and lost go to intermediate forms of heaven and hell immediately upon death, then there is no need to wait for a Judgement Day. One would instantly know one's judgement as soon as one dies, depending on where one goes in the intermediate state (heaven or hell). **Questions** - Do people in the intermediate state already know whether they are saved or lost (i.e. their judgement)? - If they do, then how do proponents of an intermediate state make sense of the fact that Matthew 7:21-23 seems to convey a degree of surprise in the individuals on Judgement Day? How can they be puzzled by their judgement if they already knew what their judgement was, long ago, as soon as they entered the intermediate state (e.g. see [Rich man and Lazarus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_man_and_Lazarus)) ?

1 Cor 15 mentions church members performing baptisms for the dead. Apart from that, no further reference to this practice exists in the Bible as far as I am aware. What, if anything, is known about this practice in the first century church (and possibly later)? How long did it exist, for example? How widespread was it?

Proponents of an [intermediate state](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermediate_state) typically regard the story of Lazarus & the rich man (Luke 16:19-31) to be informative on the realities of the underworld. According to the story, Hades / Sheol would have at least two compartments -- one of comfort for the righteous and one of torment for the wicked. > 22 **The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side**. The rich man also died and was buried, 23 **and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side**. 24 And he called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and Lazarus in like manner bad things; **but now he is comforted here, and you are in anguish**. 26 And besides all this, **between us and you a great chasm has been fixed**, in order that those who would pass from here to you may not be able, and none may cross from there to us.’ [Luke 16:22-26 ESV] Some even see a connection with Luke 23:43 *"And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, **today you will be with me in paradise**.”"*, arguing that Jesus likely meant that He and the repentant criminal would meet again in Abraham's bosom that day (today in *paradise*). See [Is there room for interpreting "paradise" in Luke 23:43 as a reference to "Abraham's Bosom" (Luke 16:19-31)?](https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/q/74473/38524) But if Sheol / Hades has always had a compartment for the righteous, and if said compartment is of comfort and joy, a paradise where the righteous wait in comfort and bliss for the advent of the Messiah, then how do advocates of an intermediate state explain the fact that OT authors such as David, Isaiah, Job, Ecclesiastes and others seemed to be oblivious to this compartment when they spoke about death in their writings? It is as if they were completely unaware of its existence. I will cite some passages in a second, but as a summary, I'll share a quote from Rajesh's answer [here](https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/a/74036/38524) : > ## Here's The #1 Point ## > > Here is, by far, the most significant point: While God might have allowed the Israelites to believe that the dead were conscious(even allowing some such as Saul and his contemporaries to believe that they were capable of being contacted), you know what's one thing God **never** *once* allowed them to believe? That the **righteous go to heaven** and the **unrighteous go to hell**; more accurately, that the righteous go to *one compartment of Sheol to be in bliss* and the unrighteous go to *another compartment of Sheol to be in torment*. In fact, quite the opposite! Whatever the Israelites *did* believe about the dead, it utterly opposes any notions of heaven and hell(or individual compartments of Sheol, one dedicated for the righteous who live there in bliss, and another dedicated for the unrighteous who live there in torment). > > I want you, for one moment, to completely **forget** *everything* you've ever thought, believed, or assumed about the state of the dead. If you were to then read each of the following passages, would you ever in a *billion years* come out with the notion that the dead are either being tormented in hell(compartment of Sheol for the unrighteous) *or* experiencing bliss in heaven(compartment of Sheol for the righteous, i.e. paradise/Abraham's bosom)? We will see that such notions are *thoroughly foreign* to the Bible. He then proceeds to quote a number of passages from multiple OT authors in support of these assertions. And to be honest, I have to admit that he has a good point. Passages such as Psalm 30:9, 6:4-5, 115:17, 88:10-12, Isaiah 14:9-11, 26:14, 38:17-19, Job 10:21-22, 14:10-12, 17:13-16, Ecclesiastes 9:5-10 strongly suggest that people in Old Testament times referred to the state of the dead in terms that reveal no knowledge about a blissful paradise in Sheol where they would meet Abraham and other saints. **Question**: According to proponents of an intermediate state, why does the Old Testament seem to be oblivious to the existence of the Bosom of Abraham?

**Hell** Christian theology invokes a very frightening image of Hell, which is quite close to how the ancient Greeks envisaged Tartarus. Wikipedia > In Christian theology, Hell is the place or state into which, by God's definitive judgment, unrepentant sinners pass in the general judgment, **Hades** According to the Britannica encyclopedia Hades was the word used to describe Hell in the Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible, and it is quite clear that it is from the infernal regions of ancient Greek mythology that Christians get the image of Hell being a place of fiery gloom and punishment. Britannica encyclopedia > In the Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible, the word Hades is used for Sheol, denoting a dark region of the dead. Tartarus, originally denoting an abyss far below Hades and the place of punishment in the lower world, **Sheol** However, The original word used in the Hebrew Bible to describe Hell, was Sheol, which according to (Job 10:21) simply meant a place where "all" the dead go, with no other connotations and the horrific images they conjure up, implied. Britannica encyclopedia > (Job 10:21). In Sheol, the good and the wicked shared a common fate, much as they had in the Babylonian underworld. The place did not conjure up images of an afterlife, for nothing happened there. It was literally inconceivable, and this is what made it frightening: death was utterly definitive, even if rather ill-defined. **Question** It would appear to be quite clear from the above that Christians today get their image of Hell from ancient Greek mythology, and not from the original Hebrew Bible. Is it not paganism to believe in polytheistic ancient Greek religion? Why do Christians use ancient Greek polytheistic connotations when defining the literal meaning of Hell?

A friend once told me about the idea that there are *two* temporary "holding places", so to speak. If a person died and would go to Heaven, but that time had not yet come, they would go to a temporary paradisaical place and similarly for Hell (not the Catholic Purgatory). Some support is given in Luke 23: > **Luke 23:40-43** (NLT) > '40 But the other criminal protested, “Don’t you fear God even when you have been sentenced to die? 41 We deserve to die for our crimes, but this man hasn’t done anything wrong.” 42 Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your Kingdom.” > > 43 And Jesus replied, “I assure you, today you will be with me in paradise.”' Where did Jesus (and the criminal) go for the three days that He was dead? There is also the fact that "Hades " refers to a different place than "Hell ". So what other Biblical evidence is there for a temporary holding place?

I'm specifically referring to this article: https://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/8092-immortality-of-the-soul -- **Some quotes** > IMMORTALITY OF THE SOUL (late Hebrew, "hasharat ha-nefesh"; "ḥayye 'olam"): By: Kaufmann Kohler > > **The belief that the soul continues its existence after the dissolution of the body is a matter of philosophical or theological speculation rather than of simple faith, and is accordingly nowhere expressly taught in Holy Scripture**. As long as the soul was conceived to be merely a breath ("nefesh"; "neshamah"; comp. "anima"), and inseparably connected, if not identified, with the life-blood (Gen. ix. 4, comp. iv. 11; Lev. xvii. 11; see Soul), **no real substance could be ascribed to it**. **As soon as the spirit or breath of God** ("nishmat" or "ruaḥ ḥayyim")**, which was believed to keep body and soul together, both in man and in beast** (Gen. ii. 7, vi. 17, vii. 22; Job xxvii. 3)**, is taken away** (Ps. cxlvi. 4) **or returns to God** (Eccl. xii. 7; Job xxxiv. 14)**, the soul goes down to Sheol or Hades, there to lead a shadowy existence without life and consciousness** (Job xiv. 21; Ps. vi. 6 [A. V. 5], cxv. 17; Isa. xxxviii. 18; Eccl. ix. 5, 10). **The belief in a continuous life of the soul, which underlies primitive Ancestor Worship and the rites of necromancy, practised also in ancient Israel** (I Sam. xxviii. 13 et seq.; Isa. viii. 19; see Necromancy), **was discouraged and suppressed by prophet and lawgiver as antagonistic to the belief in Yhwh**, the God of life, the Ruler of heaven and earth, whose reign was not extended over Sheol until post-exilic times (Ps. xvi. 10, xlix. 16, cxxxix. 8). > > **As a matter of fact, eternal life was ascribed exclusively to God and to celestial beings who "eat of the tree of life and live forever"** (Gen. iii. 22, Hebr.), **whereas man by being driven out of the Garden of Eden was deprived of the opportunity of eating the food of immortality** (see Roscher, "Lexikon der Griechischen und Römischen Mythologie," s.v. "Ambrosia"). It is the Psalmist's implicit faith in God's omnipotence and omnipresence that leads him to the hope of immortality (Ps. xvi. 11, xvii. 15, xlix. 16, lxxiii. 24 et seq., cxvi. 6-9); whereas Job (xiv. 13 et seq., xix. 26) betrays only a desire for, not a real faith in, a life after death. Ben Sira (xiv. 12, xvii. 27 et seq., xxi. 10, xxviii. 21) still clings to the belief in Sheol as the destination of man. **It was only in connection with the Messianic hope that, under the influence of Persian ideas, the belief in resurrection lent to the disembodied soul a continuous existence** (Isa. xxv. 6-8; Dan. xii. 2; see Eschatology; Resurrection). > **Hellenistic View.** > Page from the First Edition of Immanuel ben Solomon's "Meḥabberot," Brescia, 1491.(In the Columbia University Library, New York.) **The belief in the immortality of the soul came to the Jews from contact with Greek thought and chiefly through the philosophy of Plato**, its principal exponent, who was led to it through Orphic and Eleusinian mysteries in which Babylonian and Egyptian views were strangely blended, as the Semitic name "Minos" (comp. "Minotaurus"), and the Egyptian "Rhadamanthys" ("Ra of Ament," "Ruler of Hades"; Naville, "La Litanie du Soleil," 1875, p. 13) with others, sufficiently prove. > **It is not quite clear whether the Sadducees, in denying resurrection** (Josephus, "Ant." xviii. 1, § 4; idem, "B. J." ii. 12; Mark xii. 18; Acts xxiii. 8; comp. Sanh. 90b), **denied also the immortality of the soul** (see Ab. R. N., recension B. x. [ed. Schechter, 26]). **Certain it is that the Pharisaic belief in resurrection had not even a name for the immortality of the soul**. For them, man was made for two worlds, the world that now is, and the world to come, where life does not end in death (Gen. R. viii.; Yer. Meg. ii. 73b; M. Ḳ. iii. 83b, where the words , Ps. xlviii. 15, are translated by Aquilas as if they read: , "no death," ἀθανασία). -- **Question** How do believers in post-mortal consciousness respond to this article? Is it true that post-mortal consciousness is *nowhere expressly taught in Holy Scripture*? Is it true that the belief in post-mortal consciousness *came to the Jews from contact with Greek thought and chiefly through the philosophy of Plato*?

1 Peter 3:18-19 has been one of the most controversial passages in the Bible throughout time. And for good reason. I'd like to address a particular interpretation of the passage, however. >1 Peter 3:18-19 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison, You can see the interpretation in this answer here . Essentially, it says that "made alive in the spirit" is a reference to Jesus' resurrection, and "proclaimed to the spirits in prison" is a reference to Jesus preaching the gospel to the spirits of the dead imprisoned in Hades/Sheol *while* He was dead. Now, it's already a major assertion to say that "spirits" refers to *spirits of the dead*, and to say that "proclaiming" refers to *preaching the gospel*, and to say that "prison" refers to *prison in Hades[place of the dead]*, especially since nowhere in the entire passage are the spirits of the dead OR Hades mentioned. But we'll save that for another day. My question is... Why did the proclamation Jesus made take place during His death and not after His resurrection, i.e. what justification is there for such an interpretation? Peter places the event AFTER the event of Jesus being resurrected in his writing, so why isn't it that the event actually took place AFTER Jesus was resurrected(instead of BEFORE Jesus was resurrected)? Here's what I mean. >1 Peter 3:18-19 For Christ also **suffered once for sins[event 1]**, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being **put to death in the flesh[event 2]** but **made alive in the spirit[event 3]**, in which he went and **proclaimed to the spirits in prison[event 4]**, Events 1, 2, and 3 are all in chronological order; each precedes the following with regards to the historical timing of the events. Jesus (1) suffered for our sins, (2) was put to death, and (3) was resurrected, in that order. Does Peter, in the middle of his sentence, break chronological order? Does event 4 precede event 3 chronologically, despite being placed AFTER event 3 in a sequence of chronological events? If event 4(Jesus proclaiming to the spirits in prison) happened *while* Jesus was dead, wouldn't Peter have said, "*being put to death in the flesh, in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison, then made alive in the spirit*"? That way the event of Jesus proclaiming to the spirits in prison is shown to be chronologically prior to the event of Jesus being resurrected. And if Peter was incapable of putting "*proclaimed to the spirits in prison*" in-between "*put to death in the flesh*" and "*made alive in the spirit*" due to such an act breaking the poetic parallelism(the poetic parallelism of "*put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit*"), why didn't he just clarify what he meant by saying, "*in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison while dead*"? That would be a small price to pay for maintaining the poetic parallelism(presupposing, of course, that Peter not only intends to be poetic but that such poetry would come first and foremost over maintaining chronological consistency. Sure, Peter was most likely employing parallelism in verse 18, but was he required to do so? Does said parallelism take the primary slot? Is chronological consistency less significant than poetry?), and that way there would be no confusion(confusion due to him breaking the chronological sequence he had established) among of his readers. So here are my questions for those that hold to the interpretation laid out in the answer linked above; - Why did Peter break the chronological sequence of events by placing "proclaimed to the spirits in prison" AFTER "made alive in the spirit", when Jesus proclaimed to the spirits in prison BEFORE He was resurrected, while He was dead(that is, according to the interpretation that asserts that)? - What justification is there for saying that Jesus preached to the spirits in prison while He was dead despite the fact that Peter puts it after the event of Jesus being resurrected in a sequence of chronological events? - Why is an interpretation that says that Jesus proclaimed to the spirits in prison while He was dead(before He was resurrected, thus breaking the chronological sequence Peter was laying out[since Peter placed the event of Jesus proclaiming to the spirits after the event of Jesus being made alive in the spirit in a chain of chronological events]) BETTER than an interpretation that says that Jesus proclaimed to the spirits in prison while He was alive(after He was resurrected, thus maintaining the chronological sequence Peter was laying out)?

According to believers in an [intermediate state](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermediate_state) between death and the resurrection: - Did Jesus go to a paradise in Sheol while he was dead (see [Bosom of Abraham](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosom_of_Abraham)) ? > And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, **today you will be with me in paradise**.” [Luke 23:43 ESV] - Did Jesus preach to spirts in prison in Sheol? > 18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, 19 **in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison**, 20 because they formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water. [1 Peter 3:18-20 ESV] - If the answer is yes to both questions, how can we reconcile the two facts? Did Jesus visit different compartments of Sheol? Were the "spirits in prison" in paradise? ________ Relevant questions: - https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/89518/50422 - https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/89140/50422

As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words: [(source)](https://zondervanacademic.com/blog/intermediate-state) The above link already makes some good arguments, but considering that the linked site could go down for unexpected reasons and that other people might be aware of different arguments, I ask: - What is the **biblical basis** for this "afterlife model", namely, that the righteous/saints in Old Testament times originally went to the compartment in Sheol for the righteous, but after Jesus' crucifixion, resurrection and ascension now all the saints go immediately to Heaven upon death? - What is the **patristic basis**? By this I mean what are the earliest [Apostolic Fathers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostolic_Fathers) , [Ante-Nicene Fathers](https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Ante-Nicene_Fathers) & [Church Fathers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_Fathers) in general that first proposed and/or endorsed this model? - Is there any evidence that this "afterlife model" was taught by the Apostles themselves? _________ Related questions: - https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/74231/50422 - https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/89518/50422 - https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/89140/50422 - https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/89207/50422 I also recommend checking out these BHSE questions on Luke 16:19-31: - [Luke 16:19-31 Lazarus and the rich man - literal, allegorical or a mixture of both?](https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/q/27088/38524) - [What are the origins of the different elements present in the setting of the parable of Lazarus and the rich man (Luke 16:19-31)?](https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/q/74270/38524) _________ **Appendix** Here is another picture: [(source)](http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/doctrine/hades.htm)

What did the Apostolic and ante-Nicene Fathers believe about [Sheol](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheol) / [Hades](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_Hades) ? - Did they believe that it was a real supernatural place that houses the spirits of the dead? - Did they believe that it was a collective term / metaphor for the set of all the graves of the dead (i.e. just an abstract concept, nothing supernatural)? - Did they believe that it was a metaphor for the state of non-being / non-existence of the dead (see [Christian mortalism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_mortalism)) ? - Did they believe that [Abraham's Bosom](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosom_of_Abraham) was a real compartment within Sheol? See Luke 16:19-31. - What about Heaven? Did they believe that Christians go to Sheol or Heaven at death? See https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/89423/50422 _____________ **Note**: this question is related to but more specific than https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/89140/50422 ________ *Other relevant discussions* - [What are the origins of the different elements present in the setting of the parable of Lazarus and the rich man (Luke 16:19-31)?](https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/q/74270/38524) - [Luke 16:19-31 Lazarus and the rich man - literal, allegorical or a mixture of both?](https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/q/27088/38524)

Where and how are the Old Testament saints right now? Here are some possibilities (not exhaustive by any means): - They are temporarily in a state of non-existence. - They do exist (where?), but are temporarily asleep/unconscious. - They are conscious in Heaven. - They are conscious in Sheol/Hades, enjoying (temporarily) the compartment for the righteous (see [Bosom of Abraham](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosom_of_Abraham) and [Intermediate state](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermediate_state)) . What is an **overview of Christian beliefs** on the current state and location of Old Testament saints? __________ Related questions: - https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/89140/50422 - https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/81207/50422

Inspired by the answers I received to my previous question https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/89140/50422 , I'm very curious about what proponents of Soul Sleep have to say on this topic. For example, the [answer](https://christianity.stackexchange.com/a/89259/50422) I found most convincing and elaborate concludes (emphasis mine): > **The only topic raised in the OP where the Apostolic Fathers are abundantly clear is post-mortal consciousness--they are decidedly in favor of it**. > > Annihilationism does not find clear support in the Apostolic Fathers (but does find much opposition in the writings of their disciples), and proponents of bipartite & tripartite views are unlikely to find compelling evidence one way or the other. Whatever they conclude from reading the Bible will be relatively unchallenged by the writings of the Apostolic Fathers. > > *** > > **Numerous relevant statements were made by Justin, Irenaeus, Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian, and Origen**–however, I will exclude them from this post per the Meta guidance. **They are ante-Nicene Fathers**, but not Apostolic Fathers. A compilation of many of their relevant statements is found [here](http://www.earlychristiancommentary.com/early-christian-dictionary/dead/) . **Question**: What is the view of soul sleep adherents on statements from the Apostolic and ante-Nicene Fathers that seem to support post-mortal consciousness? EDIT: see also this [defense](https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/a/74082/38524) of the parable of the rich man and Lazarus as set in reality -- multiple ante-Nicene Fathers are quoted.

If God exists outside of time and space, he isn't bound by their physical laws. In particular, he may be able to ignore the flow of time, experiencing different places and times in non-sequential order. Now suppose that when a person dies, God immediately takes their human spirit (or whatever one calls the essence that defines what they are) and transports it to the time of one of the general resurrections. Both for that person, and in reality, their resurrection really is within seconds of their death. There would be no supernatural "place of the dead", no "intermediate state"; the physical parts are decomposing in the grave, and the spirit parts have jumped into the future. Those other concepts have become meaningless. For "soul sleep" advocates, this would mean that they are wrong about people "sleeping" between death and resurrection, but correct that the dead have no awareness between death and resurrection. For "consciousness after death" advocates, this would mean that they are wrong about the dead being aware of the present time, but correct that, except very briefly, the dead never really lose awareness. **Is there any biblical scripture that would disprove such a process, or at least present a conflict with it?** (Note that I don't want a rehashing of why one side or the other is wrong; I want to know why the Bible says that my specific scenario must be wrong.)

Simple question: according to adherents of the doctrine of [Intercession of Saints](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercession_of_saints) , just like the living can communicate with the dead, is it also possible for the dead to communicate with the living? In other words, is two-way communication between the living and the dead possible? If the answer is yes, could this reality be put to the test to confirm the veracity of the doctrine? For example, let's say a Protestant is reconsidering his beliefs and is no longer so sure whether the doctrine is true or not. He finally makes up his mind and resolves to pray to Mary, and to his surprise, Mary replies, leading to a whole conversation between the Protestant and Mary, confirming beyond any reasonable doubt to him that the doctrine is true. Would adherents of the doctrine of Intercession of Saints approve of such a test?

As I understand it, Hades is one way of talking about the state before hell and heaven proper, one which is temporary and does not exist for saints. This is pretty basic, but I never studied theology at all. Does the Bible say why this state is temporary?