Definition: - **sola** scriptura (by scripture alone): scripture is the **supreme** authority, and is sufficient. - **solo** scriptura (scripture alone): scripture is the **only** authority. Cardinal Gibbons's argument is that: - All Catholic and Protestant denominations sanctify Sunday, treating it as a day of rest and worship. This is the most obvious of all sacred duties. Violating the "Lord's Day" is considered a sin. - The Bible does not sanctify Sunday, only the seventh day sabbath. - Therefore all denominations recognize a non-biblical truth as doctrine. - Therefore: - the concept of solo scriptura cannot be valid, because this doctrine comes from a non-biblical authority. - The concept of sola scriptura cannot be valid, because this doctrine means that the Bible isn't sufficient. > A rule of Faith, or a competent guide to heaven, must be able to instruct in all the truths necessary for salvation. Now **the Scriptures alone do not contain all the truths which a Christian is bound to believe**, nor do they explicitly enjoin all the duties which he is obliged to practice. Not to mention other examples, is not every Christian obliged to sanctify Sunday, and to abstain on that day from unnecessary servile work? Is not the observance of this law among the most prominent of our sacred duties? But **you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday**. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify. **The Catholic Church correctly teaches that our Lord and His Apostles inculcated certain important duties of religion which are not recorded by the inspired writers**. > > — James Cardinal Gibbons, [*The Faith of Our Fathers*](https://books.google.ca/books/about/The_Faith_of_Our_Fathers.html?id=xS03AAAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=kp_read_button&hl=en&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=3c&f=false) , p.111 How do denominations that believe in solo scriptura or sola scriptura respond to this argument? --- Some comments say Sunday isn't a doctrine. [Westminster Larger Catechism (1648)](https://fpcna.org/beliefs/wlc/) for instance says that not honoring the the sabbath is a **sin**. If that isn't doctrine, what is? > Question 119: What are the sins forbidden in the fourth commandment? Answer: The sins forbidden in the fourth commandment are, all omissions of the duties required, all careless, negligent, and unprofitable performing of them, and being weary of them; all profaning the day by idleness, and doing that which is in itself sinful; and by all needless works, words, and thoughts, about our worldly employments and recreations.

King Charles and Pope Leo become the first British monarch and Roman Pontiff to pray together at a church service ***since the Reformation in the 16th Century.*** That historic moment was in the Sistine Chapel in the Vatican, during a state visit by King Charles and Queen Camilla, late October 2025. >A Foreign Office spokeswoman said: "The Catholic Church is the largest denomination of the world's largest religion."As such, the King and Queen's visit will "strengthen the UK's relationship with this crucial and influential partner", she said. > >BBC NEWS 17th October 2025 : https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czxkrn7jvexo >The King will sit in a purpose-made seat, decorated with the King's coat of arms, which will stay in place for the King's future use ***and his successors.*** > >BBC NEWS 17th October 2025 : https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czxkrn7jvexo J C Philpot and William Tiptaft (the 'seceders') left the C of E in the 1830s as they could not in conscience way back then stay within it. Then, in 1966 Dr Martyn Lloyd Jones urged evangelicals within the C of E to stop supporting its continuing drift away from biblical truth by separating from it. At that time the equally influential John Stott publicly opposed that challenge, succeeding in persuading many to persist in trying to reform it from within. Now the current situation has developed into this historic, joint, public praying in the Vatican. **Yet, how can this be a 'reconciliation' when the C of E continues to endorse things Catholicism remains opposed to (such as the ordination of women, to name but one issue) ?** **Or is this, after 500 years, the complete capitulation of a claimed 'Protestant' denomination to the biblical truths it once upheld, overturning the Reformation ?**

**Question:** The question is how is it possible that pope Leo said all these things and comparing to the other church fathers what they have said about the worship towards the east, we see that this practice is very similar or identical to what pope Leo rebukes. Having in mind that some of the most ancient churches in Rome does not have entrance from West so people to pray towards the east. If pope Leo practiced praying towards the east he could at least mention this similarity I think in order to make it clear what he talks about, so there is no confusion. ----------------------------------------------------------------- **Sources and comments for clarification:** From [Sermon XXVII](https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/360327.htm) (c. 450 AD) of Pope Leo I (Leo the Great, c. 391-461 AD): > **V. The foolish practice of some who turn to the sun and bow to it is reprehensible** > > From such a system of teaching proceeds also the ungodly practice of certain foolish folk who worship the sun as it rises at the beginning of daylight from elevated positions: even some Christians think it is so proper to do this that, before entering the blessed Apostle Peter's basilica, which is dedicated to the One Living and true God, when they have mounted the steps which lead to the raised platform , they turn round and bow themselves towards the rising sun and with bent neck do homage to its brilliant orb. We are full of grief and vexation that this should happen, which is partly due to the fault of ignorance and partly to the spirit of heathenism: because although some of them do perhaps worship the Creator of that fair light rather than the Light itself, which is His creature, yet we must abstain even from the appearance of this observance: for if one who has abandoned the worship of gods, finds it in our own worship, will he not hark back again to this fragment of his old superstition, as if it were allowable, when he sees it to be common both to Christians and to infidels? > > Leo the Great, Sermons, ed. by Thomas P. Halton, trans. by Jane Patricia Freeland and Agnes Josephine Conway, The Fathers of the Church (Washington, DC: The Catholic University of America Press, 1996), XCIII, 113 (The apostle is saying similar thing - 2 Cor. 6:15) **What is the problem with this if Christians worship towards the East and do this every time when pray?** - turn themselves around towards the rising sun, and bow down to honor its shining disk...because although some of them do perhaps worship the Creator of that fair light Let's break down the above quote: > 1. The foolish practice of some who turn to the sun and bow to it is reprehensible > > 2. such a system of teaching proceeds also the ungodly practice of certain foolish folk who worship the sun as it rises > > 3. even some Christians think it is so proper to do this > > 4. We are full of grief and vexation that this should happen, which is partly due to the fault of ignorance and partly to the spirit of heathenism: > > 5. because although some of them do perhaps worship the Creator of that fair light rather than the Light itself, which is His creature, > > 6. yet we must abstain even from the appearance of this observance: > > 7. for if one who has abandoned the worship of gods, finds it in our own worship, will he not hark back again to this fragment of his old superstition, > > 8. as if it were allowable, when he sees it to be common both to Christians and to infidels? (The apostle is saying similar thing - 2 Cor. 6:15) Quote from *De architectura libri decem* (On Architecture, published as Ten Books on Architecture) by a Pagan (Marcus Vitruvius Pollio?) probably written between 30–20 BC: > ... so that those who approach with offerings and sacrifices will look toward the image within the temple beneath the eastern part of the heavens (*spectent ad partem caeli orientis*, i.e. look towards the eastern sky); and thus when they are raising their prayers, they will view both the temple and the rising heaven, while the images themselves will seem to be rising as well, to view the supplicant and sacrificers because it seems necessary that all altars of the gods face east. (*De architectura libri decem 4.5.1*) > > *Source*: [*Early Christian Prayer and Identity Formation*](https://gnosis.study/library/%D0%93%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B7%D0%B8%D1%81/+%20%D0%9D%D0%B5%20%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BA%D0%BE%20%D0%BE%20%D0%B3%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B7%D0%B8%D1%81%D0%B5/ENG/Early%20Christian%20Prayer%20and%20Identity%20Formation.pdf) ed. by Hvalvik and Sandness (Mohr Siebeck, 2014) page 66-67 See also: - https://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/62632/why-do-many-old-churches-face-east - *Wikipedia* articles: [De architectura](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_architectura) , [Vitruvius](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitruvius) - *Ten Books of Architecture* translated by Morris Hicky Morgan (1914): [scanned pdf copy](https://www.chenarch.com/images/arch-texts/0000-Vitruvius-50BC-Ten-Books-of-Architecture.pdf) - *Ten Books of Architecture* in original Latin: [*archive.org* online reader](https://archive.org/details/vitruviidearchit00vitr/page/202/mode/2up) I think that from this text and also looking at the ancient church buildings in Rome, we can see that the churches in Rome were not all facing West, something that is a common practice today. Now the most of the churches face West, so the people inside can worship towards the east. This is very strange to me. If some say that Pope Leo I prayed towards the east and bowed, would he say all this? It is ungodly to bow to the sun and honor the creator and honor the true light as some say, but it is pious practice if you are in the church and do the same thing? How should this be understood? Pope Leo I also says - "for if one who has abandoned the worship of gods, finds it in our own worship" and the (*De architectura libri decem 4.5.1*) shows that the pagans worshiped towards the East? Another quote, from Origen: > ... Of the four directions, the North, South, East, and West, who would not at once admit that the East clearly indicates the duty of praying with the face turned towards it with the symbolic suggestion that the soul is looking upon the dawn of the true light? ... > > *Source*: [*Origen on Prayer*](https://www.ecatholic2000.com/fathers/origen.shtml) Chapter XX: Formalities of Prayer: Conclusion ::::::::::::::::::::::::UPDATE::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: **Elaboration on the question that in my opinion must be taken in consideration in order to answer the question:** We stand at prayer we face the East, where the rise of the heavens begins ...facing the light! As the symbol of the Holy Spirit, it loves the (radiant) East, that figure of Christ...while its body is turned toward a heavenly body...you turned to the east...to Christ...looks upon him directly...look always to the east, where is the rising Sun of justice... ...that the soul is looking upon the dawn of the true light...In correspondence with the manner of the sun's rising, prayers are made looking towards the sunrise in the east. Whence also the most ancient temples looked towards the west,(Pagan temples?) that people might be taught to turn to the east when facing the images....the East is the direction that must be assigned to His worship…...but few know.....the reasons for this, I think, are not easily discovered by anyone...But this tradition of the apostles is unwritten. @DJClayworth About - Answer 1: 1. You say - "because they give the impression of worshipping the sun and bring disfavour on Christians." (If we look at what the church fathers say, it will not help to prove this, but the opposite.) Pope Leo 1 mentions - The foolish practice of some who turn to the sun and bow to it is reprehensible… some of them do perhaps worship the Creator of that fair light rather than the Light itself. In reality if we look at Origen ((32).44) Prayer, Exhortation to Martyrdom), (Origen - Homilies on Leviticus), Tertullian (the (radiant) East, that figure of Christ Tertullian Adv. Val., c. iii), Clement (Strom. 7.7.43–46), Ambrose’ De Mysteriis, (Myst. 2.7), Augustine of Hippo, Augustine, Sermon on the Mount 2.5.18, John Damascene, Three Treatises on the Divine Images 2.16. We can see that what Pope Leo 1 rebukes seems to be very similar as what is mentioned by the earlier and later church fathers. Even Augustine says - "It is done so that the mind may be admonished to turn toward God while its body is turned toward a heavenly body. You say - "Leo is also talking about specifically bowing (an indication of worship) rather than Christians who pray facing a certain direction." When Christians worship / pray towards the East they bow - I recently learned that the word worship means bow down both in greek and hebrew I think. 1. Greek: proskuneó: To worship, to bow down, to prostrate oneself https://biblehub.com/greek/4352.htm https://biblehub.com/luke/4-8.htm .................................. 2. Hebrew - shachah: To bow down, to prostrate oneself, to worship. https://biblehub.com/hebrew/7812.htm So Christians worship towards the East, (bow down) when praying even physical bowing down is often made in prayer. Nr 2. You say - "2. For the denominations where churches face east, it is done for traditional reasons that are associated with facing Jerusalem, not with facing the rising sun." (We will look at the church father bellow) Where do you have this from, why Jerusalem? John 4:21? I hear this for first time. Today they say that Christ will come from East, but this is later interpretation of the worship towards the East, I have yet not found a single ancient church father mentioning this before John Damascus who is very late. You say - "not with facing the rising sun" - The church fathers connect the east with Christ the true light that they connect to the rising sun. (sun's rising, prayers are made looking towards the sunrise in the east.) (Clement of Alexandria, Strom. 7.7.43–46;) And the very strange part is - “Whence also the most ancient temples looked towards the west.” (These temples are most likely the pagan - God had only one temple and it did not look West, but East - entrance from East, praying towards the West - in the Old Testament while in the Temple in Jerusalem towards the Holy of Holies facing West) (Clement of Alexandria, Strom. 7.7.43–46;) Modern churches are not relevant because today everyone does what they want, many things have changed. I am looking only at the ancient churches and the ancient times before 9 c.AD. It seems that most Christians today are not like Christians in the past, America is relatively new. "This doesn't sound much like it is covert worship of the rising sun." - (below we will look at the church fathers). Nr. 3. I have heard about the subject of ad orientem vs versus populum. But this is different in my opinion, it is about the priest. My question is about the prayer, worship towards the east by the people as is commanded in "the apostolic constitutions". The private prayer and the prayer in the church. In this case if pope Leo 1 faced the people in Liturgy he may have prayed towards the East, but this is because the building is oriented this way, but it seems that many ancient churches in Rome have different directions, North, South, East, West if he was performing Liturgy in one of them and facing the people he may not have prayed towards the East besides the East entrance orientation. The apostolic constitutions say - (Sources say condemned as heretical Quinisext Council and Galician Decree, but John Damascus accepts it as canonical, does this make John Damascus heretic, according to the councils, but that is another question?) And first, indeed, let the building be long, with its head to the east, with its vestries on both sides at the east end; and so it will be like a ship… After this, let all rise up with one consent, and, looking towards the east, after the catechumens and the penitents are gone out, pray to God eastward, who ascended up to the heaven of heavens to the east; remembering also the ancient situation of paradise in the east, whence the first man, when he had yielded to the persuasion of the serpent, and disobeyed the command of God, was expelled. (The apostolic constitutions Chapter LVII) https://ldsfocuschrist2.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/apostolic-constitutions-william-whiston.pdf Nr. 4. You say - "4. There is no kind of uniform practice to pray facing the east.". (Probably not today, after the many reformations of the catholic church, but this is not the case for the orthodox church even today.) Today they are not so harsh as it was once, especially catholics changed a lot through the ages. "there is no rule or requirement to face east when praying" - actually if we look at the church fathers there is a rule, and if you reject this rule you are even under anathema according to the 7 ecumenical council - "If anyone rejects any written or unwritten tradition of the church, let him be anathema." https://www.papalencyclicals.net/councils/ecum07.htm The worship towards the East is an unwritten tradition, John Damascus mentions this. "it would be ridiculous to ban praying to the east (given that there are a limited number of directions to pray in) just because a tiny number of people think it might be related to sun-worship." I have not met such people yet that claim such things. But what do you think about - to tell people to worship towards the east as the pagans did and if they do not do that (reject) they are under anathema. I find it a problem when they say - pray only to the East. Not against praying towards the East, the problem is praying only towards the East thinking that we are looking at the true light (Origen), the radiant East that figure of Christ (Tertullian) while we are looking at heavenly body (Augustine). As the pagans did. Even Jerome says - “the Lord, as the Lord Himself commanded through Moses (Deut. XII), that they should not worship God against the east in the manner of the Gentiles” although I am not exactly sure if Jereome also prayed towards the East. 1. Tertullian about the pagans - But you, many of you, also under pretence sometimes of worshipping the heavenly bodies, move your lips in the direction of the sunrise. (Tertullian, Apol. 16.11)(Tertullian, Ad nat. 1.13;) https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0301.htm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apologeticus#:~:text=Apologeticus%2C%20his%20most%20famous%20apologetic,2nd%20centuries%20had%20been%20convicted . https://www.tertullian.org/works/ad_nationes.htm https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/03061.htm 2.Tertullian (c. 155 – c. 220 AD) - (Probably church orientation - (how simple is the very home!— always in high and open places, and facing the light!)) "of our dove", as he terms them, are always in "high and open places, facing the light" (Tertullian Adv. Val., c. iii), the "house of our dove" (a metaphor for the church) Of our dove, however, how simple is the very home!— always in high and open places, and facing the light! As the symbol of the Holy Spirit, it loves the (radiant) East, that figure of Christ. Nothing causes truth a blush, except only being hidden, because no man will be ashamed to give ear thereto. (Tertullian Adv. Val., c. iii), https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0314.htm https://ccel.org/ccel/tertullian/against_valentinians/anf03.v.vi.i.html 3.(198 AD–c. 203 AD) Clement of Alexandria (c.150-215 AD)(Stromata written c. 198 AD–c. 203 AD) - considered gnostic by himself - And since the dawn is an image of the day of birth, and from that point the light which has shone forth at first from the darkness increases, there has also dawned on those involved in darkness a day of the knowledge of truth. In correspondence with the manner of the sun's rising, prayers are made looking towards the sunrise in the east. Whence also the most ancient temples looked towards the west,(Pagan temples?) that people might be taught to turn to the east when facing the images. (What images? The sun? (But it is in plural)(De architecture mentions the image, the idol (De architectura libri decem 4.5.1)?)) "Let my prayer be directed before Thee as incense, the uplifting of my hands as the evening sacrifice," say the Psalms. ... But the Gnostic will ask... (Clement of Alexandria, Strom. 7.7.43–46;) https://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/clement-stromata-book7.html https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/02107.htm 4. (c. 185 – c. 253 AD) Origen of Alexandria - (Unknown date) Of the four directions, the North, South, East, and West, who would not at once admit that the East clearly indicates the duty of praying with the face turned towards it with the symbolic suggestion that the soul is looking upon the dawn of the true light?(τοῦ ἀληθινοῦ φωτὸς ἀνατολῇ). Origen, On Prayer (Unknown date). (Origen. 32).44 Origen, On Prayer, Part 3 - Origen, Origen: Prayer, Exhortation to Martyrdom, ed. by Johannes Quasten and Joseph C. Plumpe, trans. by John J. O’Meara, Ancient Christian Writers (New York; Mahwah, NJ: Newman Press, 1954), XIX https://www.ecatholic2000.com/fathers/origen.shtml https://www.tertullian.org/fathers/origen_on_prayer_02_text.htm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origen https://gnosis.study/library/%D0%93%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B7%D0%B8%D1%81/+%20%D0%9D%D0%B5%20%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BA%D0%BE%20%D0%BE%20%D0%B3%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B7%D0%B8%D1%81%D0%B5/ENG/Early%20Christian%20Prayer%20and%20Identity%20Formation.pdf 5.(Maybe before 238 - 244 AD (Maybe 220 - 230 AD in Alexandria?)) Origen of Alexandria (c. 185 – c. 253 AD) “The fact that we kneel to pray, for instance, and that of all the quarters of the heavens, the east is the only direction we turn to when we pour out prayer, the reasons for this, I think, are not easily discovered by anyone.” Origen (185-253 AD) Homily on Numbers 2:1-34 https://www.stpatricksvictor.org/wp-content/uploads/FAQ-Ad-orientem.pdf https://vdoc.pub/download/homilies-on-numbers-656uqi23omg0 https://books.google.bg/books/about/Homilies_on_Numbers.html?id=P4pPyRXeWkUC&redir_esc=y https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origen 6. 11. (c. 185 – c. 253 AD) Origen of Alexandria (Similar to Clement of Alexandria, Strom. 7.7.43–46;) It is not without interest that by the blood of a bullock is sprinkled in the eastern direction. Because from the east came the reconciliation for you. From there is a man called outgoing, who became a mediator between God and the people. You are also invited to look always to the east, where is the rising Sun of justice and where is anytime the light yield for you. So that you should never walk in the darkness and the last day shouldn’t catch you in the darkness. (Origen - Homily on the Third book of Moses) (Origen - Homilies on Leviticus) https://dokumen.pub/homilies-on-leviticus-1-16-fathers-of-the-church-0813200830-9780813200835.html https://books.google.bg/books?id=Eo9Da7xaBuUC&printsec=frontcover&redir_esc=y#v=snippet&q=%20from%20the%20east&f=false 7.(330-379 AD) Basil the great - What writing has taught us to turn to the East at the prayer? … We all look toward the East when we pray; but few know that it is because we are looking for our own former country, Paradise, which God planted in Eden in the East. St. Basil the Great, The Holy Spirit, 27,66 Basil, De Spir. Sancto 27.66; https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3203.htm 8. 16. (c. 339 – 397 AD) Ambrose of Milan Having entered, then, in order to look upon your adversary, who you deemed should be renounced to his face, you turned to the east (ad orientem converteris). For the one who renounces the devil turns to Christ (qui enim renuntiat diabolo, ad Christum convertitur), and he looks upon him directly. Bishop Ambrose’ De Mysteriis, (Myst. 2.7) https://gnosis.study/library/%D0%93%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B7%D0%B8%D1%81/+%20%D0%9D%D0%B5%20%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BA%D0%BE%20%D0%BE%20%D0%B3%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B7%D0%B8%D1%81%D0%B5/ENG/Early%20Christian%20Prayer%20and%20Identity%20Formation.pdf 9.(354 - 430 AD) Augustine of Hippo - For the purpose of signifying this truth, when we stand at prayer we face the East, where the rise of the heavens begins. This is not to signify that God is dwelling there, as though He had forsaken the other parts of the world—for God is present everywhere, not in habitations of place but in power of majesty. It is done so that the mind may be admonished to turn toward God while its body is turned toward a heavenly body. For, just as the heavenly body is higher than the earthly one, so God is a higher substance than the human mind. Augustine of Hippo, Augustine, Sermon on the Mount 2.5.18 https://documentacatholicaomnia.eu/03d/0354-0430,_Augustinus,_De_Sermone_Domini_In_Monte_Secundum_Matthaeum_[Schaff],_EN.pdf https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/16012.htm 10. (c. 342–347 – 420 AD) Jerome - commentary on Ezekiel 8:16 (That it was forbidden to worship towards East as the pagans) They did this because they despised the Lord, that is, the Creator, and worshipped the sun, that is, the creature of the Lord, as the Lord Himself commanded through Moses (Deut. XII), that they should not worship God against the east in the manner of the Gentiles: but wherever they were in the world, whether to the east, or to the west, or to the south, or to the north, they should worship toward the temple, where it was believed the Lord dwelled in the Holy of Holies. Jerome commentary on Ezekiel 8:1 https://historicalchristian.faith/by_father.php?file=Jerome%2FCommentary%2520on%2520Ezekiel.html https://azbyka.ru/biblia/in/?Ezek.8:16&r 11. c. AD 675/676 - 749 AD) John of Damascus un of Righteousness Malachi 4:2 and Dayspring , the East is the direction that must be assigned to His worship. (Deuteronomy 4:19, Deuteronomy 12:31) ..... For everything good must be assigned to Him from Whom every good thing arises. ..... So, then, in expectation of His coming we worship towards the East. .... But this tradition of the apostles is unwritten. For much that has been handed down to us by tradition is unwritten. Chapter 12. Concerning Worship towards the East. All together: always in high and open places, and facing the light! As the symbol of the Holy Spirit, it loves the (radiant) East, that figure of Christ the sun's rising, prayers are made looking towards the sunrise in the east. Whence also the most ancient temples looked towards the west,(Pagan temples?) that people might be taught to turn to the east when facing the images. the symbolic suggestion that the soul is looking upon the dawn of the true light You are also invited to look always to the east, where is the rising Sun of justice and where is anytime the light yield for you. you turned to the east...turns to Christ...looks upon him directly (The sun) we stand at prayer we face the East, where the rise of the heavens begins It is done so that the mind may be admonished to turn toward God while its body is turned toward a heavenly body. the Lord Himself commanded through Moses (Deut. XII), that they should not worship God against the east in the manner of the Gentiles (Jerome) the East is the direction that must be assigned to His worship For everything good must be assigned to Him from Whom every good thing arises. few know that it is because we are looking for our own former country, Paradise, which God planted in Eden in the East. the reasons for this, I think, are not easily discovered by anyone :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: We stand at prayer we face the East, where the rise of the heavens begins ...facing the light! As the symbol of the Holy Spirit, it loves the (radiant) East, that figure of Christ...while its body is turned toward a heavenly body...you turned to the east...to Christ...looks upon him directly...look always to the east, where is the rising Sun of justice... ...that the soul is looking upon the dawn of the true light... In correspondence with the manner of the sun's rising, prayers are made looking towards the sunrise in the east. Whence also the most ancient temples looked towards the west,(Pagan temples?) that people might be taught to turn to the east when facing the images....the East is the direction that must be assigned to His worship…...but few know.....the reasons for this, I think, are not easily discovered by anyone...But this tradition of the apostles is unwritten. Is it not strange that pope Leo does not mention a very similar practice that is done by the church. Why does he rebuke them if exactly the same is made by the church fathers? He could at least mentions this and defend the practice of the church and clarify why he rebukes them. Probably this may have not been practiced globally as it has become later? I think that it is important to mention that I have yet not found any ancient church fathers mentioning the second coming from the East as the reason for worshiping towards the East. This is mentioned in the didascalia apostolorum, apostolic constitutions (not exactly), John Damascus, all of whom are from Syria. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ @SLM - Answer 2: You mention Augustine 354-430: He says - (354 - 430 AD) Augustine of Hippo - For the purpose of signifying this truth, when we stand at prayer we face the East, where the rise of the heavens begins. This is not to signify that God is dwelling there, as though He had forsaken the other parts of the world—for God is present everywhere, not in habitations of place but in power of majesty. It is done so that the mind may be admonished to turn toward God while its body is turned toward a heavenly body. For, just as the heavenly body is higher than the earthly one, so God is a higher substance than the human mind. Augustine of Hippo, Augustine, Sermon on the Mount 2.5.18 https://documentacatholicaomnia.eu/03d/0354-0430,_Augustinus,_De_Sermone_Domini_In_Monte_Secundum_Matthaeum_[Schaff],_EN.pdf https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/16012.htm Pope Leo 1 Says - The foolish practice of some who turn to the sun and bow to it is reprehensible... the ungodly practice of certain foolish folk who worship the sun as it rises...even some Christians think it is so proper to do this...because although some of them do perhaps worship the Creator of that fair light rather than the Light itself, which is His creature, yet we must abstain even from the appearance of this observance: Augustine says - when we stand at prayer we face the East, where the rise of the heavens begins...It is done so that the mind may be admonished to turn toward God while its body is turned toward a heavenly body. Clement of Alexandria says: “the sun's rising, prayers are made looking towards the sunrise in the east.” (Clement of Alexandria, Strom. 7.7.43–46;) “abstain even from the appearance of this observance” but still do it in the church and home? You mention - (The key phrase is "elevated positions". - High places were originally dedicated to idol worship (Numbers 33:52; Leviticus 26:30), especially among the Moabites (Isaiah 16:12).) Tertullian mentions this: - "always in high and open places, and facing the light! As the symbol of the Holy Spirit, it loves the (radiant) East, that figure of Christ." (Tertullian Adv. Val., c. iii) .(After 207 AD?)Tertullian (c. 155 – c. 220 AD) - (Probably church orientation - (how simple is the very home!— always in high and open places, and facing the light!)) "of our dove", as he terms them, are always in "high and open places, facing the light" (Tertullian Adv. Val., c. iii), the "house of our dove" (a metaphor for the church) ...................................... Of our dove, however, how simple is the very home!— always in high and open places, and facing the light! As the symbol of the Holy Spirit, it loves the (radiant) East, that figure of Christ. Nothing causes truth a blush, except only being hidden, because no man will be ashamed to give ear thereto. (Tertullian Adv. Val., c. iii), https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0314.htm https://ccel.org/ccel/tertullian/against_valentinians/anf03.v.vi.i.html From these answers I learn that this tradition is even more tightly related to the pagan tradition?

When I ask this question I usually end up getting the response of: > “Well, that was just him giving us free will!” And then I ask why he would give us free will if he knew we would sin and would send us to Hell. Which gets the response of: > “Well, he didn’t want us to be robots! That would just be awful.” Then this goes on and on. What I’m trying to ask is: why did God give us the ability to sin if he would get so mad at us that he would send us to Hell? Why did God make Satan if he knew he would tempt Adam and Eve? Honestly why even make Satan in the first place?

Is the Feast of the Annunciation a feast of Our Lady, of Our Lord, or both? According to *Fasti Mariani* p. 45 , it's called variously the: - Conception of Christ - Annunciation of Christ - Incarnation of the Lord - Beginning of Redemption - Annunciation of the Angel [Gabriel] to Mary It's called the Conception of Our Lord, in the Byzantine Liturgy .

Nursing Madonna / The milk giver icon tradition - 1. Is this apostolic according to the catholic and orthodox church? - comparing to 2 Thessalonians 2:15 for the unwritten traditions.() > **2 Thessalonians 2:15** > Therefore, brethren, **stand fast, and hold the > traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word**, or our epistle. (**stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word**) is often pointed to by Catholics and Orthodox as the apostles teaching unwritten traditions. ------------------------- **Is a person condemned by the 7 ecumenical council if not accepting this practice according to the church?** > If anyone does not confess that Christ our God can be represented in > his humanity, let him be anathema. If anyone does not accept > representation in art of evangelical scenes, let him be anathema. If > anyone does not salute such representations as standing for the Lord > and his saints, let him be anathema. **If anyone rejects any written or > unwritten tradition of the church, let him be anathema.** > > https://www.papalencyclicals.net/councils/ecum07.htm The 7 ecumenical council condemns every person that does not accept any written on unwritten tradition, this traditions of the nursing Madonna is not written in the scripture, it must be considered unwritten tradition. It seems that this tradition can be found in the catholic, eastern orthodox and the oriental orthodox churches. -------------------------------------------------------------- **(Content notice: This post contains depictions of partial nudity.)** **Pagan similarities:** **It is worth to mentioning that there are several similarities with the pagan traditions only in this single icon, this is what bothers me, how will Orthodox or Catholics explain these similarities:** 1. The nursing Madonna - Same as Isis nursing Horus. 2. Holding child - same as Isis holding Horus. 3. The title queen of heaven - same as Isis. - ((The golden ass - Book XI)) 4. The child is connected to the physical sun - same as Horus. 5. The child is born on the winter solstice when the days begin to get longer. - same as the child Isis holds Horus - (Plutarch, On Isis and Osiris, ISIS AND OSIRIS, 377 )(The winter solstice - (Natural history 18.221)) 6. Halo behind the head as the pagan tradition for the idols. ------------------------------------------ 1. and 2. **The nursing Mdona or “Galaktotrophousa” (Γαλακτοτροφουσα, meaning “the Milk-Giver”) unwritten tradition of the Eastern Orthodox Church:** > The specific Icon **celebrated** on July 3 (and January 12) **dates from the > 6th century A.D.** and resided in St. Sabbas’ lavra (a type of monastic > community). Before his death, St Sabbas prophetically stated that in > time a pilgrim sharing the saint’s name, of royal lineage from Serbia, > would visit, and to him the Icon of the Mother of God, the > “Milk-Giver”, should be given as a blessing from the Monastery. God’s > time is not like our time, and so it was not until 700 years later > that the prophecy was fulfilled. The pilgrim was the Serbian prince > Rastko Nemanjić, who had taken the monastic name “Sava” (i.e. Sabbas) > when a youth. https://iconreader.wordpress.com/2011/07/03/milk-giver-icon-not-scandalized-by-the-incarnation/ > The iconographic type of the Virgin Milk-Feeder is rooted in the > Gospel narrative of Jesus Christ's birth (Matthew 2) and the verse: > «Blessed is the womb that bore You, and **the breasts which nursed You!**» > **(Luke 11:27)**. https://www.monastiriaka.gr/en/blog/panagia-galaktotrophousa-the-virgin-lactans-or-milk-nursing > **Luke 11:28** > > He replied, **“Blessed rather are those who hear the > word of God and obey it.”** > > https://biblehub.com/luke/11-28.htm ------------------------------------------------- **3. The title queen of heaven for Isis:** >“O blessed Queen of Heaven, > whether you are the Lady Ceres who is…” **> - Lucius’ Prayer for the Assistance of Isis (The golden ass - Book XI) “Most holy and everlasting, blessed Lady” - Lucius’ Prayer of Thanks** > http://www.societasviaromana.net/Collegium_Religionis/isis.php > https://ia801200.us.archive.org/15/items/TheGoldenAss_201509/TheGoldenAsspenguinClassics-Apuleius.pdf **3.1 Queen of heaven Eastern Orthodox prayer:** > Rejoice, queen of Heaven and earth Who dost open unto us the gates of > Paradise! https://orthodox-europe.org/english/liturgics/prayers/akathist-joy-of-all-who-sorrow/ **3.2 Ancient church father on the title queen of heaven for Saint Mary:** **Epiphanius of Salamis c. 375 AD:** > the holy Virgin is anything more [than a woman], he called her “Woman” > as if by prophecy, because of the schisms and sects.... ....... the > error which has arisen on St. Mary’s account.... preparing the table > for the demon25 and not for God..... even though Mary is all fair, and > is holy and held in honor, she is not to be worshiped..... Such women > **should be silenced by Jeremiah, and not frighten the world. They must > not say, “We honor the queen of heaven**.”... > > > **Ephiphanius of Salamis - Panarion - against collyridians 8** > > Page 644 in the pdf > https://ia800501.us.archive.org/18/items/EpiphaniusPanarionBksIIIII1/Epiphanius%20-%20_Panarion_%20-%20Bks%20II%20%26%20III%20-%201.pdf **Sources about - Epiphanius and the other church leaders:** Надо отметить, что Епифаний Кипрский занимался поиском различных христианских исторических сочинений при написании своих книг, а также был знаком и общался лично практически со всеми предстоятелями поместных христианских церквей. **Translated to English:** It should be noted that Epiphanius of Cyprus was engaged in searching for various Christian historical works when writing his books, and was also acquainted with and communicated personally with almost all the heads of the local Christian churches. https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1%D0%B2%D1%8F%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BE_%D0%98%D0%BE%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%BD%D0%B0_%D0%91%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B0_%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%B7%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B5_%D0%BE%D0%B1_%D1%83%D1%81%D0%BF%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B8_%D0%A1%D0%B2%D1%8F%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%B9_%D0%91%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%B8%D1%86%D1%8B ------------------------------ **4. From some church fathers we learn about the praying towards the East and it seems that the physical sun is connected somehow to the true light. Christ the Creator of that light (the sun) as Pope Leo 1 says:** (Short quotes from different church fathers - Clement of Alexandria, Origen, Tertullian, Basil the great, Ambrose, Augustine, John Damascus ... and pope Leo 1 about very similar tradition that he refutes) > We stand at prayer we face the East, where the rise of the heavens > begins ...facing the light! As the symbol of the Holy Spirit, it loves > the (radiant) East, that figure of Christ...while its body is turned > toward a heavenly body...you turned to the east...to Christ...looks > upon him directly...look always to the east, where is the rising Sun > of justice... ...that the soul is looking upon the dawn of the true > light...In correspondence with the manner of the sun's rising, prayers > are made looking towards the sunrise in the east. Whence also the most > ancient temples looked towards the west,(Pagan temples?) that people > might be taught to turn to the east when facing the images....the East > is the direction that must be assigned to His worship…...but few > know.....the reasons for this, I think, are not easily discovered by > anyone...But this tradition of the apostles is unwritten. https://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/109124/pope-leo-i-and-worshiping-towards-the-east-how-can-he-say-all-this-and-still-w **Pope Leo 1 seems to be against this practice, also the most ancient churches in Rome seems to be not oriented with entrances from West so people to be able to pray towards the East:** > The foolish practice of some who turn to the sun and bow to it is > reprehensible > > such a system of teaching proceeds also the ungodly practice of > certain foolish folk who worship the sun as it rises > > even some Christians think it is so proper to do this > > We are full of grief and vexation that this should happen, which is > partly due to the fault of ignorance and partly to the spirit of > heathenism: > > because although some of them do perhaps worship the Creator of that > fair light rather than the Light itself, which is His creature, > > yet we must abstain even from the appearance of this observance: > > for if one who has abandoned the worship of gods, finds it in our own > worship, will he not hark back again to this fragment of his old > superstition, > > as if it were allowable, when he sees it to be common both to > Christians and to infidels? (The apostle is saying similar thing - 2 > Cor. 6:15) From Sermon XXVII (c. 450 AD) of Pope Leo I https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/360327.htm **The apostle:** > **2 Cor. 6:15** And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? > > **Romans 1:25** Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is > blessed for ever. Amen. -------------------------------------------------- ----------------------- **5. The winter solstice birthday of Horus - 25 December for the roman times? Also celebrating the conception 9 months before the birth:** > Thus we shall attack the many boring people who find pleasure in > associating the activities of these gods with the seasonal changes of > the atmosphere or with the growths, sowing, and plowing of crops, and > who say that Osiris is being buried when the corn is sown and hidden > in the earth, and that he lives again and reappears when it begins to > sprout. For this reason it is said that Isis, when she was aware of > her being pregnant, put on a protective amulet on the sixth day of > Phaophi, **and at the winter solstice gave birth to Harpocrates,** > imperfect and prematurely born, amid plants that burgeoned and > sprouted before their season . . . **and they are said to celebrate the > days of her confinement after the spring equinox.** > > **(Plutarch, On Isis and Osiris, ISIS AND OSIRIS, 377 )** https://archive.org/stream/plutarch-isis-osiris-loeb/Plutarch_Isis_Osiris_Loeb_djvu.txt https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A2008.01.0239%3Asection%3D65 -------------------------------------------------------------- **5.1 About the winter solstice on 25 December, by ancient writings:** **(Today the winter solstice is around 21-22 December - but for the romans it seems to be 25 December)** **From sources:** https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b5/The_natural_history_of_Pliny_1855.pdf > Roman writers regularly quote the date of the solstice as the 25th of > December. > > **Columella, a 1st century CE agricultural writer, on the subject (De > re rustica 9.14.12):** > > ab occasu Vergiliarum ad brumam, quae fere conficitur **circa VIII > kalendas Ianuarii** in octava parte Capricorni ... > > From the setting of the Pleiades to midwinter, which occurs roughly > **around the 8th day before the kalends of January** (i.e. 25 December), > at 8° in Capricorn ... > > > > **Pliny the Elder, also 1st cent. CE (Natural history 18.221):** > > ... omnesque eae differentiae fiunt in octavis partibus signorum, > bruma Capricorni **a. d. VIII kal. Ian.** fere. > > ... and all these changes occur at 8° in the (zodiacal) signs, the > winter solstice in Capricorn on roughly **the 8th day before the kalends > of January** (i.e. 25 December). > https://kiwihellenist.blogspot.com/2015/12/christmas-and-its-supposed-pagan-links.html > > > > http://novaroma.org/nr/Roman_dates#Table_of_Dates > > Table about 25 - http://novaroma.org/nr/Roman_dates#Table_of_Dates http://novaroma.org/nr/Roman_dates#Table_of_Dates -------------------------------------------- **6. The halo on the icons as the pagan tradition for the "gods":** ------------------------------------- https://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/112600/do-the-catholic-orthodox-believe-that-the-halo-is-apostolic-unwritten-traditio https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9C%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BF%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%86%D0%B0 https://mount-athos.org/en/mount-athos/icons-relics/galaktotrofousa-hilandar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nursing_Madonna https://folia.unifr.ch/documents/306232/files/Bacci_2007pisabizantina.pdf https://es.pinterest.com/pin/612348880621533991/ https://russianicons.wordpress.com/2016/06/23/the-nursing-goddess-from-isis-to-mary/ https://www.academia.edu/113383765/Veiling_and_Head_Covering_in_Late_Antiquity_Between_Ideology_Aesthetics_and_Practicality https://iconreader.wordpress.com/2011/07/03/milk-giver-icon-not-scandalized-by-the-incarnation/ https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9C%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BF%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%86%D0%B0 https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/article/jesus-portrayals -------------------------------------------- Date 7th-6th centuries B.C. https://www.mfab.hu/artworks/1812/ Isis lactans (Isis nursing Harpocrates). Marble, approximately one and a half meters high. Vatican Museums, Pio Clementino Gallery A GRAECO-EGYPTIAN TERRACOTTA ISIS AND HARPOCRATES CIRCA 2ND-1ST CENTURY B.C. https://www.christies.com/lot/a-graeco-egyptian-terracotta-isis-and-harpocrates-circa-5546815/?intobjectid=5546815&lid=1 Roman terracotta statuette of Isis lactans, from Herculaneum 1st c. CE Soprintendenza Pompei, inv. 76724 Photographed on display in the exhibition "Il Nilo a Pompeii: visioni d'Egitto nel mondo romano" (The Nile at Pompeii: visions of Egypt in the Roman world) at the Museo Egizio in Torino, Piemonte, Italy.... https://www.flickr.com/photos/dandiffendale/30258001226 Statuette, Isis, Horus 664–30 B.C. Julia Domna, AR denarius, Rome mint. IVLIA DOMNA AVG, draped bust right / FECVNDITAS, Fecunditas seated right, holding one child in her arms and and another standing at her feet. RIC 534; RSC 42. https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/ric/julia_domna/t.html All this is from sources on the internet, I can not guarantee how accurate it is.

According to the catholic and orthodox, is this apostolic unwritten tradition or adopted pagan tradition as mentioned by newadvent website? If it is adopted pagan tradition, then this means that other pagan traditions could be incorporated in the church? Do they fall under the anathema of the 7 ecumenical council, since these traditions are unwritten? If this is the case, would there be apostolic unwritten traditions and pagan unwritten traditions in the church as unwritten traditions? How should this be understood? ------------------------------------------- > **Second Council of Nicaea – 787 A.D. ( 7th ecumenical council):** > >If anyone rejects any written or unwritten tradition of the church, let > him be anathema. - [Second Council of Nicaea – 787 A.D.](https://www.papalencyclicals.net/councils/ecum07.htm) > **2 Thessalonians 2:15** > >Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and **hold the traditions** which ye have been taught, **whether by word, or our epistle**. > >https://biblehub.com/2_thessalonians/2-15.htm ---------------------------------------- > > **1 Corinthians 4:6** > >Now these things, brothers, I have applied to > myself and Apollos for your sakes, **so that in us you may learn not to > go beyond what is written**, so that no one of you will become puffed up > on behalf of one against the other. > > https://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/4-6.htm --------------------------------------- > **2 Cor 6:14-18** > >14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with > unbelievers: **for what fellowship hath righteousness with > unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 15 And > what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that > believeth with an infidel? 16 And what agreement hath the temple of > God with idols?** for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath > said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, > and they shall be my people. **17 Wherefore come out from among them, > and be ye separate,** saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; > and I will receive you. 18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall > be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. ---------------------------------------------- > **Deut. 12:30-31** > >30 **Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them**, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and > that thou inquire not after their gods, **saying, How did these nations > serve their gods? even so will I do likewise. 31 Thou shalt not do so > unto the LORD thy God:** **for every abomination to the LORD, which he > hateth, have they done unto their gods;** for even their sons and their > daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods. -------------------------------------------- This information is from the internet, I can not guarantee how accurate it is. But it seems that most if not all fake "gods" had halos before the Christian iconography? **Pagan:** **(Content notice: This post contains depictions of nudity that may be visible on the photos of the pagan mosaics.)** (2nd c. AD) Dionysos, Nike & Maenad (Bakche) - Zeugma mosaic - Triumph of Dionysus (Gaziantep Museum - Turkey) This pavement comes from the House of Poseidon. 1.https://www.flickr.com/photos/28433765@N07/50616496196 2.https://pbase.com/dosseman/dionysostriumf 3.https://pbase.com/dosseman/image/170042225 4.https://pbase.com/dosseman/daedalus ---------------------------------------------- (Naked!) (circa 3rd-4th c. AD.) A ROMAN MARBLE MOSAIC PANEL Depicting the goddess Venus rising from the sea, supported by two tritons, both with a human torso, equine legs and a fish-tailed lower body, the goddess haloed, holding a mirror in her left hand and a cosmetic applicator in her right, nude but for a mantle wrapped around her hips and legs, coiled bracelets on each wrist, a fish in the lower corners. 1.https://tr.pinterest.com/pin/1121607482184251399/ 2.https://www.christies.com/en/lot/lot-1818486 --------------------------------------------------------------- (3rd - 4th century) Mosaic from the House of Menander with Zeus. Room 20, Panel A (Seattle Art Museum) - (Daphne, suburb of Antioch, Antakya) (limestone and marble tesserae) 1.https://www.bridgemanimages.com/en/roman/mosaic-from-the-house-of-menander-with-zeus-3rd-4th-century-limestone-and-marble-tesserae/limestone-and-marble-tesserae/asset/6348234 2.https://antiochmuseumofart.org/house-of-menander/ 3.https://www.flickr.com/photos/mharrsch/22214048901/in/pool-ancient_mosaics_in_turkey/ https://www.meisterdrucke.ie/similar/943506.html ------------------------------------------------ (2nd-3rd c. AD,) Roman mosaic showing Apollo and Daphne, (Princeton University Art Museum) --------------------------------------------------------------- (Naked)“The Triumph of Neptune,” a late 2nd century CE mosaic from La Chebba, Tunisia. The central scene depicts a bearded Neptune riding in a chariot pulled by sea horses; he is flanked by his sons Triton and Proteus. The corners of the mosaic feature women and agricultural scenes representing the four seasons. As bringer and withholder of water, Neptune would have held agency over seasonal change. Bardo National Museum, Tunis, Tunisia https://mythopedia.com/topics/neptune/ https://smarthistory.org/mosaic-decoration-at-the-hammath-tiberias-synagogue/ --------------------------------------------------------------- (Naked) One of the mosaic panels located in the museum of the city of Shebha in southern Syria. Each panel recounts ancient Greek myths introduced by the Romans in the mid-third century AD. This panel depicts Aphrodite and Oris, the goddess of beauty. The panel depicts women and the goddess of love competing to win the weapons of the goddess Oris. The panel is decorated with inscriptions, ornaments, and numerous aesthetic motifs that illustrate the myth. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shahba ------------------------------------------------------------------- (123 AD) Roman mosaic of Hunting goddess Diana found in the (baths of Oceanus at Sabratha built in 123 AD) https://x.com/libyanhistory/status/873175058302324736 https://caffetteriadellemore.forumcommunity.net/?t=47244810 https://www.temehu.com/Cities_sites/museum-of-sabratha.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------- (Naked) Triumph of Poseidon and Amphitrite, showing the couple in procession. Detail of a large Roman mosaic from Cirta, Roman Africa (c. 315–325 AD, now at the Louvre) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neptune_%28mythology%29 ---------------------------------------------------- Hatay Archaeological Museum, Antakya, Turkey. Artemis, the fierce goddess of the hunt This mosaic of Artemis was discovered in the ancient city of Issus. It was found in the tepidarium of a bathhouse in the city. The 43-square-meter mosaic floor dates from Late Antiquity (3rd and 4th centuries AD). At the center of the mosaic is the goddess Artemis, ruler of the wild, and around her are figures of animals and plants. https://chroniquescynegetiques.com/2024/10/03/artemis-la-farouche-deesse-de-la-chasse/ -------------------------------------------------------- (Naked) Aion enthroned, holding a zodiac wheel in his right hand, a scepter in his left, his head surrounded by a holo or aura [3rd cent AD] - Arles, Musée de l'Arles antique - wm Aion (Greek: Αἰών) is a Hellenistic deity associated with time, the orb or circle encompassing the universe, and the zodiac. The "time" represented by Aion is unbounded, in contrast to Chronos as empirical time divided into past, present, and future. He is thus a god of eternity, associated with mystery religions concerned with the afterlife, such as the mysteries of Cybele, Dionysus, Orpheus, and Mithras. Source: wikipedia en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aion_(deity) --------------------------------------------------- A grand mosaic of Isis and Serapis, Roman early 3rd century https://www.pinterest.com/pin/341288477982180030/ Roman mosaic depicting Isis and Serapis (3rd cent. AD) https://the-avocado.org/2018/03/05/navigium-isidis-an-ancient-religious-festival/ https://medium.com/@ancient.rome/why-are-greek-roman-and-norse-mythologies-so-similar-8bb530da993c Emperor Septimius Severus (193–211 AD) as Serapis and his wife Julia Domna as Isis on a mosaic from Huwara, Egypt. Altes Museum, Berlin. Early 3rd century AD. https://www.augustaraurica.ch/assets/content/files/publikationen/Magazin-AR/AR-2017_2_Isis-Fortuna_Ruetti.pdf Roman mosaic depicting Isis and Serapis (3rd cent. CE) https://cjapedia.com/happy-navigium-isidis-march-5 ------------------------------------------------------- Niche with a polychrome mosaic of Silvanus Excavated in 1861 in the Palazzo Imperiale, in a room next to the mithraeum. Date: reign of Commodus or Septimius Severus. W. 0.87, h. 1.57, h. of Silvanus 0.71. With text OSTIAE EFFOS ANNO MDCCCLXI. In front of the niche a lamp for two wicks was found, perhaps inv. nr. 625. A relief of Silvanus was found nearby. Inv. nr. 10729. Benndorf-Schöne 1867, nr. 551. Arachne 20773. Photo: SO IV, Tav. 211. https://www.ostia-antica.org/museums/mus-vm-ml-silvanus.htm ------------------------------------------------ **Considered Christian:** (7th c. AD) - (634-730 AD) - Saint Demetrius of Thessaloniki. (Hagios Demetrios - Thessaloniki - Greece). Votive mosaic representation from the 7th century on the northeast pillar of the church. The basilica is famous for six extant mosaic panels, dated to the period between the latest reconstruction and the inauguration of the Byzantine Iconoclasm in 730. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagios_Demetrios https://www.macedonian-heritage.gr/HellenicMacedonia/en/img_C233a.html https://www.flickr.com/photos/60661697@N07/51241589472/in/pool-ancientgreece/ St. Demetrius. 7th century. Basilica of St. Demetrius, Thessaloniki. Mosaics on the pillars at the entrance to the altar and on the western wall of the main nave https://www.icon-art.info/bibliogr_item.php?id=21 https://macedonia.kroraina.com/en/rheb/rheb_mp.htm#1 -------------------------------------------------------- (No beard)(the end of 4th c. AD - the beg. of 5th c. AD) - (Christ)(Church of the Savior of the Latomou Monastery (Church of Hosios David)), (Thessaloniki, Greece). Mosaic with Christ and probably with Saints Peter and Paul on the sides - Lazarev attributes these mosaics to the end of the 5th beginning of the 6th century of the contemporary period to the Theodoric period connecting them to the mosaics of the basilica Sant'Apollinare Nuovo in Ravenna. 1.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Hosios_David 2.https://macedonia.kroraina.com/en/rheb/rheb_mp.htm#1 3.https://ru.pinterest.com/anastasyatatarn/chiesa-del-salvatore-del-monastero-di-latomou-chie/ https://vk.com/photo-35220730_312236388 https://flickr.com/photos/28433765@N07/15338085684/in/pool-2740017@N23/ Jesus Christ in glory. Mosaic in conch apses. End of 5— beginning of 6 th. c AD https://www.pravenc.ru/text/2581611.html https://ru.pinterest.com/pin/223843043962682817/ --------------------------------------- Justinian I AR Light Miliarense. Constantinople mint. Struck 527-537 AD. D N IVSTINIANVS P P AVG, pearl diademed, draped, cuirassed bust left / GLORIA ROMANORVM, Justinian, nimbate, standing facing, head left, raising hand and holding globe; star in right field; mintmark COB. DOC I 26. https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/byz/justinian_I/t.html -------------------------------------------- St. Aquilin Chapel, (4th c. AD ? Beg.of the 5th c. AD) mosaic. (No beard, short hair) https://www.flickr.com/photos/roger_joseph/5417358183/ https://vk.com/photo-35220730_312171522 Christ teaching the Apostles , Late4th century https://art.kunstmatrix.com/en/artwork/1882721/christ-teaching-apostles ------------------------------------------- Angelic Ranks (Dominions and Powers). Mosaic of the 7th century. Church of the Dormition of the Virgin Mary. Nicaea. https://vk.com/photo-35220730_312783865 Heavenly Powers. Mosaic of the Church of the Dormition of the Blessed Virgin Mary. 7th century? (7 c. AD?, 9 c. AD?) (2 sources 7c. AD and 1 source 9.c. AD) (9. C AD) https://azbyka.ru/otechnik/ikona/iskusstvo-vizantii-4-15-vekov/4 (7 c. AD) https://www.icon-art.info/bibliogr_item.php?id=21 https://www.pravenc.ru/text/200147.html ---------------------------------------- Santa Costanza in Rome. End of the 4th c. AD. The Mausoleum of Costanza (Constantina) (VIII) This 4th-century mausoleum was built under Constantine the Great for his daughter Constantina (Costanza), who died in 354 AD. His other daughter, Helena, is also buried here. The mosaics on the ambulatory vaults are an excellent example of late antique and early Christian art. https://vk.com/photo-35220730_312171210 https://www.flickr.com/photos/isawnyu/7556340750 https://www.mediastorehouse.com/search.html?search=ancient+halo ----------------------------------------- Mural painting of Jesus Christ from the catacomb of Commodilla. Rome, late 4th century. The symbols on either side are Alpha and Omega. Remember that the Christ is "beginning and end." Revelation 22, 13: "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last." https://vk.com/photo-35220730_312138059 https://diglib.library.vanderbilt.edu/diglib-fulldisplay.pl?SID=20250124369513274&code=act&RC=49950&Row=109 --------------------------------------------- Mosaic of Orans and Donors (5th-6th century) Church of St. Demetrius - Thessaloniki - Greece. Wall mosaics from the small north colonnade in the Church of St Demetrius Thessaloniki, saved from the fire of 1917, 5th-6th c. Museum of Byzantine Culture, Thessaloniki, Greece https://www.thebyzantinelegacy.com/demetrios-thessaloniki -------------------------------------------- Santa Pudenziana in Rome. 390AD - (401-417) AD The 4th century Basilica di Santa Pudenziana contains some fine mosaics, including this one in its apse. I gather that it is the earliest Christian mosaic to be found anywhere in Rome (it dates from 390). As the excellent Cadogan guide to Rome says, 'artists had yet to decide on the familiar iconography of the saints; here all have become honorary Roman citizens ... in their senatorial togas'. https://vk.com/photo-35220730_312171270 https://www.flickr.com/photos/24151047@N05/47846198011 https://my-passion.blog/2018/11/29/oldest-paintings-of-jesus/ ------------------------------------------------- The Good Shepherd. Mid-5th century. Mausoleum of Galla Placidia, Ravenna. Mosaic in the lunette Лазарев 1986 - История византийской живописи. Т. 2. OCR hires #21.pdf https://www.icon-art.info/bibliogr_item.php?id=21 https://vk.com/photo-35220730_312236302 The Good Shepherd , c 425 AD Mausoleum of Galla Placidia, Ravenna, Italy https://art.kunstmatrix.com/en/artwork/1882044/good-shepherd https://my-passion.blog/2018/11/29/oldest-paintings-of-jesus/ https://byzantinenews.blogspot.com/2014/02/cfp-miracles-and-wonders-in-antiquity.html https://azbyka.ru/otechnik/ikona/iskusstvo-vizantii-4-15-vekov/1 ---------------------------------------------------- Baptism of Christ and the Twelve Apostles. Mid-5th century. Orthodox Baptistery, Ravenna. Mosaics in the dome Лазарев 1986 - История византийской живописи. Т. 2. OCR hires #21.pdf pg. 32 https://www.icon-art.info/bibliogr_item.php?id=21 Domed Mosaic Ceiling , 547 AD Basilica of San Vitale, Ravenna, Italy. https://art.kunstmatrix.com/en/artwork/1882765/domed-mosaic-ceiling Ravenna. Mosaic in Baptistery of Neon. 5th century. Baptism of Jesus. Italy. https://www.alamy.com/ravenna-mosaic-in-baptistery-of-neon-5th-century-baptism-of-jesus-italy-image238557621.html https://www.flickr.com/photos/35409814@N00/11904625526/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/60661697@N07/17795977821/in/pool-1307009@N23/ -------------------------------------------- (River “god”? to left?) Arian Baptistery in Ravenna. Late 5th-early 6th c. AD. Mosaics in the dome https://www.icon-art.info/bibliogr_item.php?id=21 https://www.flickr.com/photos/bobbex/52646912056 https://flickr.com/photos/27305838@N04/15953924945/in/pool-2740017@N23/ ------------------------------------------------------ (Dark skin) 526-530 AD.Christ - Church of Santi Cosma e Damiano. Rome. https://vk.com/photo-35220730_313024499 https://israelandpalestinediary.blogspot.com/2015/12/was-jesus-palestinian-or-was-jesus.html ------------------------------------------------------ Jesus Christ flanked by Saints Peter and Paul · Catacombs of Saints Peter and Marcellinus, Rome, 4th century AD. https://my-passion.blog/2018/11/29/oldest-paintings-of-jesus/ Christ between Saint Peter and Saint Paul, above four martyrs worshiping the Mystic Lamb, 4th century (dome of the Catacombs of the Saints Peter and Marcellinus, Rome). https://arsartisticadventureofmankind.wordpress.com/2014/07/07/early-western-christian-art-during-the-iiird-ivth-and-vth-centuries-the-painting-of-the-catacombs/ ----------------------------------- Year of Object(s) Creation: 550 A.D. (approximate) Provenience Nation: Cyprus Provenience Location: Church of the Panayia Kanakaria Year Removed from Findspot: 1975 (approximate) https://research.cgu.edu/cultural-property-disputes-resource/cpdr/church-of-panagia-kanakaria-mosaics/ ---------------------------------- **Sources:** 1. In early Christian art the nimbus certainly is not found on images of God and celestial beings, but only on figures borrowed from profane art, and in Biblical scenes; 2. Hence it follows that the Bible furnished no example for the bestowal of a halo upon individual saintly personages. 3. As a matter of fact the nimbus, as an inheritance from ancient art tradition, was readily adopted and ultimately found the widest application because the symbol of light for all divine, saintly ideals is offered by nature and not infrequently used in Scripture. 4. The nimbus of early Christian art manifests only in a few particular drawings, its relationship with that of late antiquity. 5. In the first half of the fourth century, Christ received a nimbus only when portrayed seated upon a throne or in an exalted and princely character, but it had already been used since Constantine, in pictures of the emperors, and was emblematic, not so much of divine as of human dignity and greatness. 6. The number of personages who were given a halo increased rapidly, until towards the end of the sixth century the use of symbols in the Christian Church became as general as it had formerly been in pagan art. https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11080b.htm ---------------------------------------------------- 1. NIMB (from Latin nimbus – cloud) – a glow around the head – as a sign of divine power, originated in the East. In Ancient Egypt and Mesopotamia, deities were depicted with a solar disk above their heads or with rays coming out of their heads. Later in Ancient Greece, the god of light Apollo and the god of the sun Helios began to be depicted with a radiant halo around their heads. The pagan halo is a symbol of the shining sun, divine flame, sacred light. 2. THE IDEA OF THE CHRISTIAN HALO was formed only in the 4th century. In Christianity, the halo is a symbol of participation in the essence of the One God. Since "God is light" (1 John 1:5), the halo is part of this light. The halo reveals the essence of Christ as the Heavenly Light revealed to the world. On the vault of the cubicle of Leo in the catacombs of Commodilla is one of the first images of Christ with a halo around his head. This fresco dates back to the second half of the 4th century. Jesus Christ. Second half of the 4th century. Fresco. Catacombs of Commodilla, Rome. 3. In the iconography of Angels, the halo becomes a mandatory attribute in the 5th century. 4. The nimbuses of the Apostles and saints appear only at the end of the 5th century. 5. A cross-shaped (cross-shaped) halo is a round halo with a cross placed inside it, which symbolizes the atoning sacrifice of Christ in the name of saving humanity. Among the earliest known images of Christ with a cross-shaped halo is a bas-relief from a sarcophagus of Constantinople origin from the beginning of the 5th century, depicting Christ with the apostles. The relief is poorly preserved, but traces of the crossbars of the cross can be seen on the halo. 6. By 6 th. c. AD the cross on the nimbus of Christ becomes almost mandatory. Ovchinnikov A. N. Symbolism of Christian Art. – M.: Rodnik, 1999. Pp. 10–19. https://dzen.ru/a/ZXl5T1_d5C72wmOv -------------------------------

For hundreds of years, generations of believers held to the historic belief that Rome/Popes were Antichrist/The Antichrist. What led to the dismissal of this traditional interpretation of Scripture in 1986, and who was behind it?

Sola Scriptura can be broken into two parts: 1. Sola - Alone 2. Scriptura - The sacred Scriptures One aspect of Sola Scriptura is the idea that Scripture is the *Sole* **Infallible AND Authoritative** rule of faith over Christians. But in relation to [my last post](https://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/89214/how-do-proponents-of-sola-scriptura-defend-the-doctrine-without-scripture-being) , there is a question over the canon of scripture. Since no book that anyone would consider scripture (at least among protestants that would claim Sola Scriptura) *never* says what scripture is, who determines what scripture is? Or, as I point out in my [blog post](https://www.blogger.com/blog/post/edit/5957239847810915194/4590423893995530597) : >This poses a two horned dilemma. Horn 1 - The source that canonized the Bible is not infallible and authoritative, thus we could add any books to the Bible and no one would have a basis to reject these additions (this is obviously bad). Horn 2 - The source that canonized the Bible is infallible and authoritative, thus Sola Scriptura is false. So whatever horn you take, you will end up with consequences. So to close on my question, what source has given us the canon of scripture (not scripture, since that has come from God), and is that source infallible or authoritative?

[Athanasius](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athanasius_of_Alexandria) and [Apollinaris](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollinaris_of_Laodicea) were two important figures in the early church, and both were opponents of Arianism. But while Athanasius is regarded as a faithful defender of sound teaching during this period while Trinitarian Christology was being developed, Apollinaris is considered a heretic because he denied that the Son became a full human in the incarnation, but instead only took on a human body, not a human mind or soul. It has been claimed however, since at least the 19th century, that Athanasius' Christology was essentially Apollinarian. Richard Hanson likened his Christology to that of an astronaut and a spacesuit: > Just as the astronaut, in order to operate in a part of the universe where there is no air and where he has to experience weightlessness, puts on an elaborate space suit which enables him to live and act in this new, unfamiliar environment, so the logos puts on a body which enabled him to behave as a human being among human beings. But his relation to his body is no closer than that of an astronaut to his space suit. (*The Search for the Christian Doctrine of God*, p448) > > We must conclude that whatever else the Logos incarnate is in Athanasius’ account of him, he is not a human being. (Ibid, p451) Trevor Hart [says](https://www.biblicalstudies.org.uk/pdf/eq/1992-2_155.pdf) that Hanson followed Baur, Stülcken, Richard, and Grillmeier in interpreting Athanasius as "virtually ignoring the presence of a human soul or mind in the incarnate Christ." This is a big claim, but not one I've heard before. Lots of early church figures have mixed legacies, being instrumental for powerfully and clearly stating true doctrine in some area, while getting it very wrong in another, but Athanasius does not have this reputation. Athanasius and Apollinaris were active at the same time, though Apollinaris outlived Athanasius. A [previous question](https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/24916/6071) has asked whether any of Athanasius' writings about Apollinaris survived, but even if they didn't, enough of Athanasius' writings have survived that we should be able to judge whether this claim has merit. Did Athanasius either deny or ignore that Christ in the incarnation had a human mind and soul?

Imagine Bob. Bob was, at some point, Christian. Perhaps he was raised that way, or perhaps he came to faith later in life, but at some point, he was confirmed, communing regularly, professing Christ, and has felt God's Presence in his life. Then, something happened. Some event caused Bob to turn away from Christ to pursue a different path. Maybe the breakup was public, or maybe it was just in the privacy of his heart, but at minimum, Bob said to God, "go away; I don't need or want you". ---- A certain user cited Hebrews 6:4-6, claiming that Bob, having apostatized, can no longer be redeemed: > 4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. (KJV) However, this seems contrary not only to Scripture (with God, all things are possible), but to God's own nature (God is patient, wanting everyone to be saved). Indeed, most sects as far as I can tell teach that there is no sin from which one cannot repent, and that it is only by remaining in sin that one cuts *one's self* off from Salvation, essentially by refusing to accept the free gift. Logically, moreover, this teaching would suggest to Bob that God despises him and that not only should he not bother to seek God, he might as well do all he can to be God's enemy since he has nothing to lose. **Which sect(s) teach that one who has fallen off the path cannot be called back?**

A friend told me that "bad people" are limited when it comes to spreading the Word of God. According to scripture, how, and in what way, does sin hinder one's ability to spread the Word of God?

I was looking at this mormon.org page that mentions that "The current prophet and President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is Thomas S. Monson." 1. Does the LDS church assert that doctrinal statements made by the current Prophet are either "inspired", "infallible", or both? 2. Has the Prophet made any statements about (near)future events that Mormons expect to happen? (I am separating "inspired" and "infallible" because I am not sure how they are interpreted in this context.)

Both Apollinaris and Eutychius believed in one divine subject Christology that the only and whole person of Christ is a divine person, the Logos. Not a divine-humane person. Their Christology were condemned at Constantinople (381) and Chalcedon (451), respectively. Apollinaris teaches that the Logos supplant the rational faculty of Christ not another man. While Eutychius teaches that the flesh of Christ belongs to the Logos and not another man. So that both teach the Logos, a divine person is the only divine subject. How then one in principle manner differentiate their Christology from one another?

As I've looked around the internet at reactions to Athanasius' magnum opus *On the Incarnation*, I've seen some accusations of latent Apollinarism. The work was published before the Apollinarian heresy was formally defined and condemned, but they say that it was materially there in his writings. That's just background, it's not what my question is about. You need not defend his orthodoxy to me. Before the heresy was condemned at the ecumenical First Council of Constantinople, it was condemned at a local council in Alexandria headed by none other than Athanasius. So clearly Athanasius was as opposed to this heresy as he had famously been opposed to Arianism. But are there any surviving writings I can read where he lays out the case against Apollinarism?

It is an observable fact that most people, even most Christians, don't repent of every sin individually before they die. Even that really great guy at church who's everyone's best friend and is first to let you know he messed up probably has been in a tiff or two where he thinks he was completely right and, in a lack of charity, or even with just a hint of pride, he refuses to see that he may have handled things improperly. For Catholics and Orthodox, with their theology of purgatory/tollhouses, as well as the Sacrament of Penance, this is a non-issue. That guy has all of those "venial" sins forgiven when he makes a good, honest confession of at least all his mortal sins. And, even if some venial sins slip through the cracks before death and aren't absolved, or aren't fully properly repented of, he will spend some time suffering in purgatory temporarily, and then will enter heaven for eternity thereafter. However, for Protestants who specifically reject both the doctrine of purgatory *and* make no distinction between mortal and venial sins (I'm thinking of those for whom the statement "stealing $1 and stealing $1 million are both damnable offenses" is generally a thought to be a true statement), it would seem that unless a man manages to truly and fully repent of every single little sin he has committed in his entire life, he would end up going straight to hell. Do Protestants who deny both of these tenets of Catholic faith simply bite that bullet, or do they have another way of working out this theological problem? ## Clarification I'm confused as to why I am getting lots of answers about earning our salvation. I am presuming that those answering believe, like I do, that people must repent of all of their sins in order to go to heaven. What I am asking is what Protestants think happens to people who neglect to repent of a single sin or maybe two or three, but otherwise live holy lives, when they die. I feel I must add this because I must have communicated something unclearly in the original body of the question.

I asked this question on the hermeneutics SE but I was told it would be better to ask here. What I can say is I'm not looking for an answer explaining that salvation is through Christ only, because it is obvious and it was even my assumption for this question. What I'm wondering is more about what Jesus actually meant if we know He is the only way of salvation. In Matthew 23:13, we can read: >But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because **you shut the kingdom of heaven against men**; for you neither enter yourselves, nor allow those who would enter to go in - **Matthew 23:13 (RSV-CE)** In Catholic, Polish Bible "Biblia Tysiąclecia", there's a commentary to this verse (translated to English): >By imposing excessive requirements around the Law, **they made it impossible for people to observe it, thereby closing the way to salvation**. They also bear the greatest blame for the people's unbelief in Jesus the Messiah. Is this commentary accurate? I'm asking because in my opinion, someone could conclude from this verse that the Law could've been observed in a feasible way that leads to salvation which we know is actually impossible because humans are not able to observe the Law entirely and perfectly (that's why Jesus, who can do that, had to redeem us on the cross). And also, would observing the Law in a hard way be considered a sin if it "shuts the kingdom of heaven" or not so much sin as it leads to commiting one? If it is, who is actually responsible for that sin? Were people aware of it? If not, why would God close the heaven for such people if they did it unintentionally? Or were they kind of deceived, so both deceived and deceiver commited sin? The only interpretation that comes to my mind is it refers to observing the Law before Christ's death, but still those people couldn't observe the Law perfectly and needed redemption on the cross. Maybe it is just about observing in the right way as much as possible, not observing perfectly and entirely?

The main characteristic of Sabellianism is that God is only one hypostasis (one Person). Sabellianism is sometimes described as similar to Modalism, in which 'Father' and 'Son' are merely two names for exactly the same Person. Others say that Sabellianism did make a distinction between the Father and Son within the one hypostasis, like one can distinguish between the body, spirit, and soul within one human person. While the Trinity doctrine teaches three hypostases in God, Athanasius, like Sabellianism, held that the Father, Son, and Spirit are a single hypostasis: > "The fragments of Eustathius that survive present a doctrine that is > close to Marcellus, and to Alexander and **Athanasius**. Eustathius > insists there is **only one hypostasis**“ (Ayres, p. 69). > > The “clear inference from his (Athanasius') usage” is that “there is > **only one hypostasis in God**” (Ayres, p. 48). > > “Athanasius' most basic language and analogies for describing the > relationship between Father and Son primarily present the two as > intrinsic aspects of **one reality or person**” (Ayres, p. 46). He taught that the Son is an internal aspect of the Father: > “Athanasius' increasing clarity in treating the Son as **intrinsic to > the Father's being**” (Ayres, p. 113). > > “Athanasius' argument speaks not of two realities engaged in a common activity, but develops his most basic sense that the Son is **intrinsic to the Father's being**” (Ayres, p. 114). > > “Although Athanasius’ theology was by no means > identical with Marcellus’, the overlaps were significant enough for > them to be at one on some of the vital issues—especially their common > insistence that the Son was **intrinsic to the Father's external > existence**” (Ayres, p. 106). For Athanasius, just as the Son is part of the Father, the Holy Spirit is part of the Son and, therefore, not a distinct Person or hypostasis: > “Just as his (Athanasius’) account of the Son can rely heavily on the > picture of the Father as one person with his intrinsic word, so too he > emphasizes the closeness of Spirit to Son by presenting the Spirit as > the Son's ‘energy’” (Ayres, p. 214). > > “The language also shows Athanasius trying out formulations that will > soon be problematic. … ‘The Cappadocians' will find the language of > ἐνέργεια [superhuman activity] used of the Spirit … to be highly > problematic, seeming to indicate a lack of real existence” (Ayres, p. > 214). Athanasius opposed the concept of “three hypostases.” He regarded the phrase as "unscriptural and therefore suspicious” (Ayres, p. 174). For Athanasius, the enemy was those who taught more than one hypostasis (Person) in God. The similarity of their theologies allowed Athanasius to form an alliance with the leading Sabellian Marcellus: > “Athanasius and Marcellus now seem to have made common cause against > those who insisted on distinct hypostases in God” (Ayres, p. 106). > > At the time when both Marcellus and Athanasius were exiled to Rome, “they considered themselves allies” (Ayres, p. 106). > > “Athanasius ... continued to defend the orthodoxy of Marcellus” > (Hanson, p. 220). > > Contrary to the traditional account, “it is … no longer clear that > Athanasius ever directly repudiated Marcellus, and he certainly seems > to have been sympathetic to Marcellus’ followers through into the > 360s” (Ayres, p. 106). Athanasius, in writing, declared the Sabellians to be orthodox: > “About the year 371 adherents of Marcellus approached Athanasius, > presenting to him a statement of faith. … He accepted it and gave them > a document expressing his agreement with their doctrine” (Hanson, p. > 801). If Athanasius was not a Sabellian, how did he differ from them?

When Dr Vance Smith , a Unitarian, was appointed to the Committee to revise the Authorised Version, public opinion objected to the appointment and Drs Westcott and Hort (Hort, also, leaning towards Unitarianism) said that if Dr Smith was not allowed then neither would they be involved in the revision. All three were permitted to contribute to the revision and during that revision Drs Westcott and Hort approached other members of the committee, singly, seeking to influence them in regard to the Greek text being translated - the Received Text, also called the *Textus Receptus*. The ensuing revision resulted in the imposition of a new Greek text (that of Drs Westcott and Hort) in 1881, something not envisaged by the purpose of the revision. Many objected to this, among them Dean John Burgon who, in his book ‘*Revision Revised*’, pointed out that between the two manuscripts upon which the W&H text strongly depended, Codex Aleph (*Sinaiticus*) and Codex B (*Vaticanus*), there was disagreement in over three thousand places *in just the four gospels*. Hermon Hoskier , in his book ‘*Codex B and its Allies*’ demonstrated that there had been a recension (a supposed ‘reversion’ to the original) in the fifth century, based on Egyptian and Coptic influence, resulting in a corrupted text. The *correction* of this recension, of the fifth century, resulted in the Received Text . Hermon Hoskier further demonstrated that the two manuscripts upon which Drs Westcott and Hort so much relied were, in fact, *proof of the corrupt recension*. The reason they survived, say Dean John Burgon and Hermon Hoskier, is that they were recognised for their fault and were little used, just retained as reference. The resulting Greek text of Westcott and Hort can be seen to be weakened, compared to the Received Text, in many places where the Deity of Christ and where the relationship of Father and Son are in view. (See below for just a few of those places.) Overall, about 9,000 alterations, additions and deletions were made to the Received Text (see Dr Scrivener’s comparative text of 1881) amounting to about 7% of the text. And it is noticeable to anyone who studies these changes in detail that there is a definite bias appearing in regard to the deliberate favouring of Codices Aleph and B on these particular occasions. What is the response of those who favour the so-called ‘Critical Text’ above the Received Text to the overall changes in emphasis seen in these texts - the bias evidently towards Unitarianism ? ---------------------------------------------- A full explanation of the following texts and the effect of changing them is available here . (See the PDF version for a much better display of the Greek letters.) - ... and they **worshipped him** ... Luke 24:52 - ... the **only begotten Son** ... John 1:18 - ... the Son of man, **which is in heaven** ... John 3:13 - ... purchased **with his own blood** ... Acts 20:28 - ... Christ came, **who is over all, God blessed for ever** ... Romans 9:5 - ... neither let us tempt **Christ** ... 1 Corinthians 10:9 - ... singing to the **Lord** ... Colossians 3:16 - ... **God** was manifest in flesh ... 1 Timothy 3:16 - ... the dead ... stand **before God** ... Revelation 20:12 ----------------------------- Note (edit) I have used the word 'bias' in its second meaning as listed by the Oxford English Dictionary - 'to exert an influence unduly'. This is exactly, precisely, a description (as demonstrated in detail by Herman Hoskier in '*Codex B and its Allies*' and Dean John Burgon in his book '*Revision Revised'*) of placing undue preponderance on just two manuscripts against the vast weight of evidence contained in over 5,000 other Uncials and miniscules, the Patristic Citations, the Versions and the Lectionary quotations. It results in a bias introduced in the fifth century and reproduced in the Critical Text as the above examples clearly indicate.

The following information comes from *the Manual of Indulgences: Norms and Grants translated into English from the 4th edition (1999) of Enchiridion Indulgentiarum: Normae et Concessiones)* which I think is the most up to date edition. In addition to being a baptized person in the state of grace and performing these two pious acts with the intentions of gaining the plenary indulgences (one for the Day of New Years and the other for the day before)---as only one plenary indulgence can be gained in any one day for oneself, there are the other usual conditions: (1) sacramental confession, (2) Holy Communion, and (3) praying for the Pope's intentions, all within a few weeks of the act, and (4) with complete detachment from all sin, even venial. It would appear from the wording used (e.g., "assist"), that these prayers must be recited publicly (other sources of information also would confirm this). QUESTION: In order to possibly obtain both of these plenary indulgences which, the acts of which are done on separate days (such as before midnight and after midnight), are two sets of prayers for the intentions of the Pope, two separate sacramental confessions, and two receptions of Holy Communion required? Thank you.