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Christianity

Q&A for committed Christians, experts in Christianity and those interested in learning more

Latest Questions

8 votes
3 answers
3267 views
Have any noteworthy church councils denounced Full Preterism as heresy?
[Full preterists](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preterism) believe that all prophecies in the Bible have already been fulfilled, including those related to the final resurrection, the Second Coming of Christ, and the Final Judgment. I have met some Protestant preterists who believe that their belief...
[Full preterists](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preterism) believe that all prophecies in the Bible have already been fulfilled, including those related to the final resurrection, the Second Coming of Christ, and the Final Judgment. I have met some Protestant preterists who believe that their beliefs are in accord with the ecumenical creeds, despite language in the creeds that seems to imply that the Second Coming and other eschatological events are yet to come. Do any Roman Catholic or Protestant councils or creeds specifically state that full preterist beliefs are heretical?
Ben Mordecai (4994 rep)
Oct 8, 2015, 06:37 PM • Last activity: Jul 25, 2025, 05:36 PM
3 votes
4 answers
603 views
Is there a hard and fast rule for knowing whether it is scandalous to attend someone's marriage for Catholics?
On Catholic call-in-shows and even on this website, there are innumerable questions about the scandal caused by attending the weddings of people who aren't perfect angelic prototypical Catholics. One or both parties can be: 1. divorced 2. not-Catholic 3. fallen-away Catholics 4. didn't even realize...
On Catholic call-in-shows and even on this website, there are innumerable questions about the scandal caused by attending the weddings of people who aren't perfect angelic prototypical Catholics. One or both parties can be: 1. divorced 2. not-Catholic 3. fallen-away Catholics 4. didn't even realize one of the parties was baptized Catholic 4. living together 5. have children out of wedlock 6. currently pregnant 7. a known sinner Which of these should disturb a Catholic's conscience enough to prevent them from attending a marriage and how does proximity to the couple (maybe they're cousins that you don't know so well) affect the decision?
Peter Turner (34374 rep)
Apr 11, 2025, 11:51 AM • Last activity: Jul 25, 2025, 02:57 PM
7 votes
3 answers
1810 views
What was the source of the image of pelican in Catholic churches?
Many Catholic churches across the world have an image of a pelican with its chicks. The pelican is depicted as cutting its heart open with the beak, with blood dripping down. Understandably, it symbolises Christ. What was the source of this image? Was there any scriptural base, or was it a code, lik...
Many Catholic churches across the world have an image of a pelican with its chicks. The pelican is depicted as cutting its heart open with the beak, with blood dripping down. Understandably, it symbolises Christ. What was the source of this image? Was there any scriptural base, or was it a code, like the image of fish used by early Christians?
Kadalikatt Joseph Sibichan (13820 rep)
Jul 22, 2025, 08:53 AM • Last activity: Jul 25, 2025, 12:24 PM
14 votes
8 answers
5354 views
Did Paul remain a Jew even after his conversion?
I’m doing some research about early Christianity, specifically looking into the circumstances of the divergence between Judaism and Christianity as two very distinct religions as we know them today. It seems Paul had a very remarkable role in shifting the Christian faith into a more Gentile and inde...
I’m doing some research about early Christianity, specifically looking into the circumstances of the divergence between Judaism and Christianity as two very distinct religions as we know them today. It seems Paul had a very remarkable role in shifting the Christian faith into a more Gentile and independent religion rather than enforcing Mosaic laws. Since Paul is considered the Apostle to the Gentiles, did Paul continue to consider himself a Jew after conversion?
Mithridates the Great (257 rep)
May 30, 2024, 08:33 AM • Last activity: Jul 25, 2025, 08:40 AM
4 votes
3 answers
25193 views
What was the population of the world at the time of the flood?
I understand that from the perspective of those who take the Bible literally, the global flood took place about 2400 B.C. and that the world began about 4000 B.C., giving 1600 years of human population growth. So, what was the estimated population at the time of the flood? In other words, how many p...
I understand that from the perspective of those who take the Bible literally, the global flood took place about 2400 B.C. and that the world began about 4000 B.C., giving 1600 years of human population growth. So, what was the estimated population at the time of the flood? In other words, how many people incurred the judgment of God in the flood? Please answer according to the perspective of those who take the Bible literally and historically.
Narnian (64807 rep)
Sep 2, 2014, 12:33 PM • Last activity: Jul 24, 2025, 06:53 PM
4 votes
3 answers
805 views
How did the Catholic Church choose which Sacred Tradition is infallible?
How did the Catholic Church choose which [Sacred Tradition][1] is infallible when there are conflicting traditions, such as the [Filioque][2] controversy, especially considering that both the Catholic and Orthodox Churches have valid [apostolic succession][3] according to the Catholic Church? [1]: h...
How did the Catholic Church choose which Sacred Tradition is infallible when there are conflicting traditions, such as the Filioque controversy, especially considering that both the Catholic and Orthodox Churches have valid apostolic succession according to the Catholic Church?
Wenura (1178 rep)
Nov 18, 2023, 11:43 AM • Last activity: Jul 24, 2025, 06:29 PM
11 votes
8 answers
2450 views
Is it heresy for a Christian to believe a false idea (like a flat or round earth) before the truth is revealed or verified?
The Bible teaches that we should seek truth and avoid falsehoods. However, when it comes to things like the shape of the earth, most Christians rely on information from governments or scientists, since none of us have personally verified it by traveling to space. If a Christian sincerely believes so...
The Bible teaches that we should seek truth and avoid falsehoods. However, when it comes to things like the shape of the earth, most Christians rely on information from governments or scientists, since none of us have personally verified it by traveling to space. If a Christian sincerely believes something that is false (like the earth being flat or round), before it has been revealed to them or verified firsthand, is that considered heresy, or just ignorance? At what point does holding a false belief cross into spiritual error? I'm especially interested in how this applies when the belief doesn’t directly affect one’s salvation or core doctrines. Is believing in a scientifically incorrect idea — even unknowingly — a form of heresy in the eyes of the Church or Scripture?
So Few Against So Many (6425 rep)
Jul 17, 2025, 06:28 PM • Last activity: Jul 24, 2025, 02:37 PM
-1 votes
2 answers
242 views
Do you have to state that you committed a mortal sin on a Sunday?
In confession do you have to state that you committed a mortal sin on a Sunday? Is this analogous to saying that you stole from a church rather than just stealing?
In confession do you have to state that you committed a mortal sin on a Sunday? Is this analogous to saying that you stole from a church rather than just stealing?
wmasse (838 rep)
Apr 6, 2025, 02:15 AM • Last activity: Jul 24, 2025, 01:28 PM
14 votes
3 answers
508 views
What is the status of Humbert's views on the efficacy of sacraments in Catholicism?
[Humbert of Silva Candida](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humbert_of_Silva_Candida) was an important medieval theologian, best known for his involvement in the excommunication of the Patriarch of Constantinople in 1054. He was also a vocal proponent of a number of views, such as papal authority and c...
[Humbert of Silva Candida](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humbert_of_Silva_Candida) was an important medieval theologian, best known for his involvement in the excommunication of the Patriarch of Constantinople in 1054. He was also a vocal proponent of a number of views, such as papal authority and clerical celibacy. On this latter point, Everett Ferguson writes that he "said that sacraments administered by married clerics were invalid," and then continues: > Humbert's later work *Against the Simoniacs* in three books made a similar claim: Any cleric appointed to office by a layman, no matter how honestly, could not administer valid sacraments, a doctrine that revived the viewpoint of Donatism, which made the validity of sacraments depend on the status of the administrator. ([*Church History*, I, 19.V.B](https://books.google.com/books?id=mRQwAAAAQBAJ&pg=PT351)) This does sound like Donatism to me, but I don't see any indication on Wikipedia or elsewhere that Humbert's views actually violated Catholic dogma. In light of subsequent clarifications of the doctrines of the sacraments, are these views of Humbert's considered problematic in modern Catholicism?
Nathaniel is protesting (43098 rep)
Aug 1, 2017, 12:07 PM • Last activity: Jul 24, 2025, 01:24 PM
0 votes
3 answers
586 views
Do Nicene Christians believe they worship the same god as Latter-day Saints?
### Nicene Beliefs Non Latter-day Saint Christians (also known as Nicene Christians) believe the following about God: - **There is only one God** > “We believe in one God...” — Nicene Creed, opening line - **God created everything in existence** > “…the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, of...
### Nicene Beliefs Non Latter-day Saint Christians (also known as Nicene Christians) believe the following about God: - **There is only one God** > “We believe in one God...” — Nicene Creed, opening line - **God created everything in existence** > “…the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, of all things > visible and invisible.” — Nicene Creed, 381 version - **God is eternal, uncreated, and the source of all life** > “…begotten, not made…” (referring to the Son), and “the Lord and Giver > of Life” (referring to the Holy Spirit) — Nicene Creed - **God is a Trinity: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit — three persons, one essence** > Implied throughout the Nicene Creed and formally defined at the 1st Council of Constantinople (381 CE) ### LDS Beliefs On the other hand, these core Nicene beliefs are **not** shared by the Church of Latter-day Saints. Indeed the LDS Church explicitly rejects these tenets: > **There is only one God** Latter-day Saints worship only God the Father through Jesus Christ, but they also believe in the existence of a plurality of Gods. God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost are three distinct beings, and this divine plurality extends beyond them — faithful humans can and have also become exalted and become gods themselves: > “I will preach on the plurality of Gods… The heads of the Gods appointed one God for us.” - Joseph Smith, King Follett Discourse --- >> **God created everything in existence** LDS theology holds that God organized the universe from pre-existing, eternal matter, rather than creating ex nihilo (out of nothing). Matter is considered co-eternal with God: > “The elements are eternal...” — Doctrine and Covenants 93:33 --- >> **God is eternal, uncreated, and the source of all life** LDS theology teaches that God is eternal, but not uncreated in the classical Christian sense. According to LDS theology, the LDS God was once a mortal man who progressed to godhood: > “God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man... If you were to see him today, you would see him like a man in form.” — Joseph Smith, King Follett Discourse --- >> **God is a Trinity: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit — three persons, one essence** Latter-day Saints reject the Nicene doctrine of the Trinity. Instead, they believe in a Godhead of three distinct divine beings: God the Father, Jesus Christ (His Son), and the Holy Ghost. These are united in purpose but are not of one substance. > “Latter-day Saints do not believe in the traditional doctrine of the Trinity as developed in the post–New Testament church.” — Gospel Topics: Godhead ### Question With these apparent fundamental differences in mind, do Nicene Christians believe that they worship the same god as Latter-day Saints? Or do they believe that the Nicene/Trinitarian God is ontologically different enough from the LDS God that they cannot be said to be the same being?
Avi Avraham (1961 rep)
Jul 23, 2025, 04:01 PM • Last activity: Jul 24, 2025, 04:12 AM
0 votes
1 answers
84 views
How were prayer requests handled in medieval monasteries?
Practically, how were prayer requests handled in medieval monasteries? Did only the abbot/prior review them, or did all the monks know about the prayer requests outsiders would submit to the monastery?
Practically, how were prayer requests handled in medieval monasteries? Did only the abbot/prior review them, or did all the monks know about the prayer requests outsiders would submit to the monastery?
Geremia (43087 rep)
Jul 23, 2025, 06:38 PM
0 votes
1 answers
158 views
What is the Liturgical History of the Prayer to Saint Michael (Oratio ad Sanctum Michael)?
What is the **liturgical**[i] **history** of the **[Prayer to Saint Michael][1]** *(Oratio ad Sanctum Michael)* that was composed by **[Pope Leo XIII][2]**? ---------- [i] **Liturgical**, i.e., as part of the official public worship of the Church distinguished from private devotion. [Cf. [CATHOLIC C...
What is the **liturgical**[i] **history** of the **Prayer to Saint Michael ** *(Oratio ad Sanctum Michael)* that was composed by **Pope Leo XIII **? ---------- [i] **Liturgical**, i.e., as part of the official public worship of the Church distinguished from private devotion. Cf. [CATHOLIC CULTURE > Catholic Dictionary > **LITURGY** ]
Crucifix San Damiano (1 rep)
Jul 23, 2025, 06:19 PM • Last activity: Jul 23, 2025, 06:25 PM
6 votes
1 answers
1684 views
What does a returning Catholic who contracted marriage in a Protestant church need to do when the spouse wants to remain Protestant?
### The Background A baptized and confirmed Catholic married a Protestant in a Protestant church without permission. About the marriage: - The marriage covenant was made with the full understanding of what a Christian marriage meant in the eyes of God (*cf*. CCC 1601-1620): a solemn covenant between...
### The Background A baptized and confirmed Catholic married a Protestant in a Protestant church without permission. About the marriage: - The marriage covenant was made with the full understanding of what a Christian marriage meant in the eyes of God (*cf*. CCC 1601-1620): a solemn covenant between two baptized Christians, with full consent (*cf*. CCC 1625-1632), for life, for the purpose of procreation, etc. - The celebration of marriage was similar to CCC 1621-1624 and similar to the canonical form, except: - officiated by a valid Protestant minister instead of a Catholic priest/deacon - CCC 1621: instead of in the presence of Christ in the Eucharist, it's made in the presence of Christ in the Protestant ceremony - CCC 1622: instead of receiving the sacrament of penance, the couple confess sin to one another in Christ - The couple has lived honoring the marriage bond and obligations like a Catholic marriage should be (even without contraception), thus realizing The Effects of the Sacrament of Matrimony (*cf*. CCC 1638-1642), The Goods and Requirements of Conjugal Love (*cf*. CCC 1643-1654), and The Domestic Church (*cf*. CCC 1655-1658). - The couple is raising the kids as Protestants although in a denomination that is not hostile to the Catholic Church. The couple is also attending a conservative Protestant church regularly and bring up their kids there as good Christians who love the Lord. Let's say it's [ACNA](https://anglicanchurch.net/) , a more conservative Anglican denomination than the Church of England. **Now the Catholic has second thoughts** and wants to go back to being in a state of grace and receive the Catholic sacraments. But the spouse wants to remain in the Protestant church and does not allow the kids to attend the Catholic church, although the spouse gives full freedom for the Catholic to practice the faith EXCEPT to teach the kids one or two Catholic doctrines that the spouse doesn't agree, such as praying to Mary. **THIS IS TRULY A TESTAMENT TO THE WARNING GIVEN IN [CCC 1634](http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/1634.htm).** Therefore, although the spouse is more ecumenical than a typical Protestant, the Catholic cannot fully discharge the obligation spelled out in Can. 1125 §1 but made the best effort: > the Catholic party is to declare that he or she is prepared to remove dangers of defecting from the faith and is to make a sincere promise to do all in his or her power so that all offspring are baptized and brought up in the Catholic Church; For sure, the Catholic has to receive absolutions for the following: - Have been away from the Catholic church - Have contracted a mixed marriage outside the church without exemption But I was taken aback at [Geremia's answer](https://christianity.stackexchange.com/a/90364/10672) that **fornication** needs to be repented. Is this true when the marriage is lived as described above? ### The Question Given the limitation that the spouse is not willing to convert and to raise the kids fully within the Catholic church (although she is not hostile to most of the teachings), **according to the Catholic Church**, what else does this Catholic need to do beyond confessing the two sins above and continue raising the kids in the Lord as Catholic as possible? Three related questions: 1. [CCC 1623](http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/1623.htm) says that > According to Latin tradition, the spouses as ministers of Christ's grace **mutually confer upon each other the sacrament of Matrimony** by expressing their consent before the Church. ... Although the "Church" here is a [Protestant ecclesial community](https://www.irishtimes.com/news/pope-says-other-churches-not-churches-in-proper-sense-1.949220) , it appears that this Catholic can remain in this Protestant marriage (as described above) without committing fornication, or is this not true? 2. It DOES appear that the [marriage has to be convalidated](https://archden.org/marriage/marriage-convalidation/) since the Catholic married in a non-Catholic ceremony without an exemption from the Catholic church. But is the Protestant spouse consent / presence needed for the convalidation? A [*Catholic Answers* article](https://www.catholic.com/qa/what-can-i-do-about-my-invalid-marriage) suggests that this require radical sanation (Can. 1161 § 1) and in some cases the non-Catholic does not need to know (although it's preferable that the non-Catholic knows). But can radical sanation still be obtained even though the Catholic cannot perform Can. 1125 §1 to the full extent because of the spouse's opposition? 3. Modifying the case study a little, let's say the case is between a Protestant couple in which one wants to become Catholic but the other wants to remain Protestant and the kids need to be raised in the Protestant church. Is it an impediment for the would-be-Catholic to receive communion? Is marriage convalidation necessary / possible in this case? Is fornication committed without convalidation? ### Motivation for this question I believe there are many who are in this situation: who through Catholic evangelization effort now want to go back practicing Catholic but have a difficulty introduced by the Protestant spouse. Ultimately, this is an ecumenical question as all mainline denominations try to reconcile as much as they can without losing their distinctiveness.
GratefulDisciple (27935 rep)
Apr 4, 2022, 08:43 AM • Last activity: Jul 23, 2025, 06:17 PM
6 votes
2 answers
541 views
What is the scriptural support for contemplative prayer?
I was reading this question: https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/14143/117426. Contemplation is defined by [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contemplation) as follows: > In a religious context, the practice of contemplation seeks a direct awareness of the divine which transcends the int...
I was reading this question: https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/14143/117426 . Contemplation is defined by [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contemplation) as follows: > In a religious context, the practice of contemplation seeks a direct awareness of the divine which transcends the intellect, often in accordance with religious practices such as meditation or prayer. > > ### Christianity > > In Eastern Christianity, **contemplation (theoria) literally means to see** > **God or to have the Vision of God**. The state of beholding God, > or union with God, is known as theoria. The process of Theosis which > leads to that state of union with God known as theoria is practiced in > the ascetic tradition of Hesychasm. Hesychasm is to reconcile the > heart and the mind into one thing (see nous). > > Contemplation in Eastern Orthodoxy is expressed in degrees as those > covered in St John Climacus' Ladder of Divine Ascent. The process of > changing from the old man of sin into the newborn child of God and > into our true nature as good and divine is called Theosis. > > This is to say that once someone is in the presence of God, deified > with him, then they can begin to properly understand, and there > "contemplate" God. This form of contemplation is to have and pass > through an actual experience rather than a rational or reasoned > understanding of theory (see Gnosis). Whereas with rational thought > one uses logic to understand, one does the opposite with God (see also > Apophatic theology). > > The anonymously authored 14th century English contemplative work The > Cloud of Unknowing makes clear that its form of practice is not an act > of the intellect, but a kind of transcendent 'seeing,' beyond the > usual activities of the mind - "The first time you practice > contemplation, you'll experience a darkness, like a cloud of > unknowing. You won't know what this is... this darkness and this cloud > will always be between you and your God... they will always keep you > from seeing him clearly by the light of understanding in your > intellect and will block you from feeling Him fully in the sweetness > of love in your emotions. So be sure to make your home in this > darkness... We can't think our way to God... that's why I'm willing to > abandon everything I know, to love the one thing I cannot think. He > can be loved, but not thought." > > Within Western Christianity contemplation is often related to > mysticism as expressed in the works of mystical theologians such as > Teresa of Avila and John of the Cross as well as the writings of > Margery Kempe, Augustine Baker and Thomas Merton. > > Dom Cuthbert Butler notes that contemplation was the term used in the > Latin Church to refer to mysticism, and "'mysticism' is a quite modern > word". This [article](https://conversatio.org/being-with-god-the-practice-of-contemplative-prayer/) presents contemplative prayer as the fourth stage of the *Lectio divina*: > *Contemplatio* is prayer as being. In *contemplatio*, we rest in the presence of the One whose word and presence have invited us to transforming embrace. That word, having touched both our minds and our hearts, now leads us into quiet rest in the Beloved. This is a prayer of presence—the gift of consciousness that is transformed by and infused with God’s presence. It is prayer as being—a gift of being in and with God that allows all my doing to flow from this center. It is, as described by Thomas Keating, the movement from conversation to communion. GotQuestions features an [article](https://www.gotquestions.org/contemplative-prayer.html) on contemplative prayer that outright claims it has no biblical support whatsoever: > Contemplative prayer begins with “centering prayer,” a meditative practice where the practitioner focuses on a word and repeats that word over and over for the duration of the exercise. The purpose is to clear one’s mind of outside concerns so that God’s voice may be more easily heard. After the centering prayer, the practitioner is to sit still, listen for direct guidance from God, and feel His presence. > > **Although this might sound like an innocent exercise, this type of prayer has no scriptural support whatsoever. In fact, it is just the opposite of how prayer is defined in the Bible**. “Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God.” (Philippians 4:6). “In that day you will no longer ask me anything. I tell you the truth, my Father will give you whatever you ask in my name. Until now you have not asked for anything in my name. Ask and you will receive, and your joy will be complete” (John 16:23-24). These verses and others clearly portray prayer as being comprehendible communication with God, not an esoteric, mystical meditation. Do Christian practitioners of contemplative prayer believe it is based on the Bible? If so, what is the scriptural support for contemplative prayer?
user117426 (790 rep)
Jul 18, 2025, 05:21 PM • Last activity: Jul 23, 2025, 03:55 PM
1 votes
1 answers
461 views
Can a person who refers as agnost said to be an unbeliever?
Recent personal experiences have made a close relative question their Christian beliefs to a far extent. They still believe in the possibility of an all-knowing God but question specific characteristics of Protestant-Christianity such as Priesthood. They strongly believe every Christian should have...
Recent personal experiences have made a close relative question their Christian beliefs to a far extent. They still believe in the possibility of an all-knowing God but question specific characteristics of Protestant-Christianity such as Priesthood. They strongly believe every Christian should have equal and direct access to God, preferring to align towards agnosticism. From the perspective of protestant-catholicism (Anglicanism) can this individual be said to be an unbeliever?
Ikenna Ene (19 rep)
Jul 20, 2025, 04:59 AM • Last activity: Jul 23, 2025, 01:23 PM
3 votes
1 answers
235 views
Is the Orthodox Study Bible footnote on 1 Samuel 17:4 a mistake?
The Orthodox Study Bible's OT translation (produced by the St. Athanasius Academy) is based on the Septuagint, instead of being primarily based on the Masoretic text like most English translations of the Bible. The text of 1 Samuel 17:4 in the Septuagint lists Goliath's height as "four cubits and a...
The Orthodox Study Bible's OT translation (produced by the St. Athanasius Academy) is based on the Septuagint, instead of being primarily based on the Masoretic text like most English translations of the Bible. The text of 1 Samuel 17:4 in the Septuagint lists Goliath's height as "four cubits and a span" (roughly 6'9''), contrasting with "six cubits and a span" (roughly 9'9'') in the Masoretic text. The OSB follows the Septuagint in its translation, but the footnote says: > Goliath is over nine feet tall. This is accurate regarding the Masoretic text, but not the Septuagint. Is it a mistake? Or are they following St. Augustine's interpretation of differences between the Septuagint and the Hebrew text? I.e. that the Hebrew text is historically accurate, but that the Greek is also divinely inspired and contains symbolical significance (*City of God* Book 18, chapter 43-44 ). There could also be another explanation I've not thought of.
user62524
Jul 14, 2025, 12:49 AM • Last activity: Jul 23, 2025, 12:26 PM
6 votes
2 answers
4538 views
How do Catholics speak with their Guardian angels?
According to Catholic teachings, how are Catholics to speak with their guardian angels? With their voice? In their minds? Does the Church provide any guidance or description?
According to Catholic teachings, how are Catholics to speak with their guardian angels? With their voice? In their minds? Does the Church provide any guidance or description?
Aigle (832 rep)
Sep 15, 2016, 08:52 PM • Last activity: Jul 23, 2025, 03:31 AM
14 votes
2 answers
1999 views
When and where does the statement, "Christ paid the penalty for our sins" first appear?
The statement, "Christ *paid the penalty* for our sins" does not appear in the Bible. When in the history of Christian theology did this specific statement first appear? Who said it? Please provide the actual text (and source) from the writings of the Christian theologians or teachers who first said...
The statement, "Christ *paid the penalty* for our sins" does not appear in the Bible. When in the history of Christian theology did this specific statement first appear? Who said it? Please provide the actual text (and source) from the writings of the Christian theologians or teachers who first said it—or at least, the earliest ones you can document. **If that is clear to you, there is no need to read the rest of this question.** *Please note:* - This question is specifically about the statement that Christ *paid the penalty* for our sins. Equivalent wordings, such as "Christ paid the *price* for our sins" or *"Jesus* paid the penalty for our sins," are on-topic. However, "Christ died for our sins" or "Christ suffered for our sins" or even "Christ was punished for our sins" are off-topic. I am looking for statements specifically about Christ *paying the penalty,* or *paying the price,* for our sins. - "Paying the price" in the context of Ransom Theory is also off-topic. A ransom is not a penalty or punishment for sin. - I am *not* looking for antecedents for this idea, nor am I looking for passages quoted as the biblical basis for this idea. I am looking for the earliest *explicit statements* of the idea itself. - For reference: the Wikipedia article on Penal Substitution . Please do not just quote from or refer to the Wikipedia article, which seems rather murky and disorganized. ***Edit** in response to comments:* My hypothesis is that the Penal Substitution theory of atonement is closely tied to the phrase "paid the penalty." This is a history of doctrine question rather than simply an English phrase question. However, it is common for proponents of Penal Substitution to see this theory of atonement in phrases representing ideas that are not necessarily the same. For example: - *"Christ died for our sins."* If a drunk driver hits you and kills you, you have died for (due to) the sins of the drunk driver, but you have not *paid the penalty* for the sins of the drunk driver. S/he remains guilty of the crime, and subject to punishment. - *"Christ suffered for our sins."* If a drunk driver hits you and injures you, you have suffered for the sins of the drunk driver, but you have not *paid the penalty* for the sins of the drunk driver. S/he remains guilty of the crime, and subject to punishment. - *"Christ was punished for our sins."* If a drunk driver hits you, and you are wrongfully accused and put in jail instead of the drunk driver, you have *still* not paid the penalty for the drunk driver's sins. The drunk driver remains guilty of the crime, and subject to its penalty if and when it is discovered that there was a miscarriage of justice. Or if you were to voluntarily go to jail *with* the drunk driver, taking the same punishment even though you didn't commit the crime, you would still not have *paid the penalty* for the drunk driver's sins. S/he would *still* remain guilty of the crime, and subject to punishment. The point is, every one of these statements can easily and very reasonably be read as meaning something other than Christ paying the penalty for our sins. (And I happen to think that they *do* mean something other than Christ paying the penalty for our sins.) That is why I am insisting on the precise language that most specifically expresses the Penal Substitution theory of atonement: that Christ *paid the penalty* for our sins. Protestant tracts are full of the statement, "Christ paid the penalty for our sins." That phrase is not in the Bible. It must have come from *somewhere.* I want to know where it came from. I suspect this will also provide the origin point of the Penal Substitution theory of atonement in the history of Christian doctrine. If none of that works for you, just repeat over and over again before writing an answer: **Where did the precise phrase "Christ *paid the penalty* for our sins" come from?**
Lee Woofenden (8682 rep)
May 22, 2015, 11:20 PM • Last activity: Jul 23, 2025, 12:11 AM
7 votes
2 answers
12057 views
According to Catholicism, how was Mary born without original sin?
I am slowly converting to Catholicism and am confused on the doctrine of Immaculate Conception. I do understand that it is Mary's conception that she was free from original sin. According to St. Augustine, original sin was passed down via sexual intercourse. Augustine also said that because Jesus di...
I am slowly converting to Catholicism and am confused on the doctrine of Immaculate Conception. I do understand that it is Mary's conception that she was free from original sin. According to St. Augustine, original sin was passed down via sexual intercourse. Augustine also said that because Jesus did not have a human biological father and was not conceived with sperm. From what I understand of the story of St. Joachim and Anne, they had intercourse at the gates of Jerusalem. I may be wrong on these things as I am still learning. But taking these things into account, how can Mary be born without original sin if her parents had intercourse.
Dash Ivey (508 rep)
Nov 6, 2020, 04:17 PM • Last activity: Jul 22, 2025, 09:28 PM
2 votes
1 answers
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Involuntarily causing someone else to be killed for one's own faith
As far as I can tell, Christians are morally obligated to stay faithful to their beliefs at any cost, even under pain of martyrdom. However, what if it's someone else's life at stake? For example, if someone holds an innocent bystander at gunpoint and threatens to kill them unless you worship a fals...
As far as I can tell, Christians are morally obligated to stay faithful to their beliefs at any cost, even under pain of martyrdom. However, what if it's someone else's life at stake? For example, if someone holds an innocent bystander at gunpoint and threatens to kill them unless you worship a false god, what do the Church or Scripture have to say about this?
K Man (287 rep)
Jul 21, 2025, 11:25 AM • Last activity: Jul 22, 2025, 08:01 PM
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