Nursing Madonna / The milk giver icon tradition - 1. Is this apostolic according to the catholic and orthodox church? - comparing to 2 Thessalonians 2:15 for the unwritten traditions.() > **2 Thessalonians 2:15** > Therefore, brethren, **stand fast, and hold the > traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word**, or our epistle. (**stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word**) is often pointed to by Catholics and Orthodox as the apostles teaching unwritten traditions. ------------------------- **Is a person condemned by the 7 ecumenical council if not accepting this practice according to the church?** > If anyone does not confess that Christ our God can be represented in > his humanity, let him be anathema. If anyone does not accept > representation in art of evangelical scenes, let him be anathema. If > anyone does not salute such representations as standing for the Lord > and his saints, let him be anathema. **If anyone rejects any written or > unwritten tradition of the church, let him be anathema.** > > https://www.papalencyclicals.net/councils/ecum07.htm The 7 ecumenical council condemns every person that does not accept any written on unwritten tradition, this traditions of the nursing Madonna is not written in the scripture, it must be considered unwritten tradition. It seems that this tradition can be found in the catholic, eastern orthodox and the oriental orthodox churches. -------------------------------------------------------------- **(Content notice: This post contains depictions of partial nudity.)** **Pagan similarities:** **It is worth to mentioning that there are several similarities with the pagan traditions only in this single icon, this is what bothers me, how will Orthodox or Catholics explain these similarities:** 1. The nursing Madonna - Same as Isis nursing Horus. 2. Holding child - same as Isis holding Horus. 3. The title queen of heaven - same as Isis. - ((The golden ass - Book XI)) 4. The child is connected to the physical sun - same as Horus. 5. The child is born on the winter solstice when the days begin to get longer. - same as the child Isis holds Horus - (Plutarch, On Isis and Osiris, ISIS AND OSIRIS, 377 )(The winter solstice - (Natural history 18.221)) 6. Halo behind the head as the pagan tradition for the idols. ------------------------------------------ 1. and 2. **The nursing Mdona or “Galaktotrophousa” (Γαλακτοτροφουσα, meaning “the Milk-Giver”) unwritten tradition of the Eastern Orthodox Church:** > The specific Icon **celebrated** on July 3 (and January 12) **dates from the > 6th century A.D.** and resided in St. Sabbas’ lavra (a type of monastic > community). Before his death, St Sabbas prophetically stated that in > time a pilgrim sharing the saint’s name, of royal lineage from Serbia, > would visit, and to him the Icon of the Mother of God, the > “Milk-Giver”, should be given as a blessing from the Monastery. God’s > time is not like our time, and so it was not until 700 years later > that the prophecy was fulfilled. The pilgrim was the Serbian prince > Rastko Nemanjić, who had taken the monastic name “Sava” (i.e. Sabbas) > when a youth. https://iconreader.wordpress.com/2011/07/03/milk-giver-icon-not-scandalized-by-the-incarnation/ > The iconographic type of the Virgin Milk-Feeder is rooted in the > Gospel narrative of Jesus Christ's birth (Matthew 2) and the verse: > «Blessed is the womb that bore You, and **the breasts which nursed You!**» > **(Luke 11:27)**. https://www.monastiriaka.gr/en/blog/panagia-galaktotrophousa-the-virgin-lactans-or-milk-nursing > **Luke 11:28** > > He replied, **“Blessed rather are those who hear the > word of God and obey it.”** > > https://biblehub.com/luke/11-28.htm ------------------------------------------------- **3. The title queen of heaven for Isis:** >“O blessed Queen of Heaven, > whether you are the Lady Ceres who is…” **> - Lucius’ Prayer for the Assistance of Isis (The golden ass - Book XI) “Most holy and everlasting, blessed Lady” - Lucius’ Prayer of Thanks** > http://www.societasviaromana.net/Collegium_Religionis/isis.php > https://ia801200.us.archive.org/15/items/TheGoldenAss_201509/TheGoldenAsspenguinClassics-Apuleius.pdf **3.1 Queen of heaven Eastern Orthodox prayer:** > Rejoice, queen of Heaven and earth Who dost open unto us the gates of > Paradise! https://orthodox-europe.org/english/liturgics/prayers/akathist-joy-of-all-who-sorrow/ **3.2 Ancient church father on the title queen of heaven for Saint Mary:** **Epiphanius of Salamis c. 375 AD:** > the holy Virgin is anything more [than a woman], he called her “Woman” > as if by prophecy, because of the schisms and sects.... ....... the > error which has arisen on St. Mary’s account.... preparing the table > for the demon25 and not for God..... even though Mary is all fair, and > is holy and held in honor, she is not to be worshiped..... Such women > **should be silenced by Jeremiah, and not frighten the world. They must > not say, “We honor the queen of heaven**.”... > > > **Ephiphanius of Salamis - Panarion - against collyridians 8** > > Page 644 in the pdf > https://ia800501.us.archive.org/18/items/EpiphaniusPanarionBksIIIII1/Epiphanius%20-%20_Panarion_%20-%20Bks%20II%20%26%20III%20-%201.pdf **Sources about - Epiphanius and the other church leaders:** Надо отметить, что Епифаний Кипрский занимался поиском различных христианских исторических сочинений при написании своих книг, а также был знаком и общался лично практически со всеми предстоятелями поместных христианских церквей. **Translated to English:** It should be noted that Epiphanius of Cyprus was engaged in searching for various Christian historical works when writing his books, and was also acquainted with and communicated personally with almost all the heads of the local Christian churches. https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1%D0%B2%D1%8F%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BE_%D0%98%D0%BE%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%BD%D0%B0_%D0%91%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B0_%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%B7%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B5_%D0%BE%D0%B1_%D1%83%D1%81%D0%BF%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B8_%D0%A1%D0%B2%D1%8F%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%B9_%D0%91%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%B8%D1%86%D1%8B ------------------------------ **4. From some church fathers we learn about the praying towards the East and it seems that the physical sun is connected somehow to the true light. Christ the Creator of that light (the sun) as Pope Leo 1 says:** (Short quotes from different church fathers - Clement of Alexandria, Origen, Tertullian, Basil the great, Ambrose, Augustine, John Damascus ... and pope Leo 1 about very similar tradition that he refutes) > We stand at prayer we face the East, where the rise of the heavens > begins ...facing the light! As the symbol of the Holy Spirit, it loves > the (radiant) East, that figure of Christ...while its body is turned > toward a heavenly body...you turned to the east...to Christ...looks > upon him directly...look always to the east, where is the rising Sun > of justice... ...that the soul is looking upon the dawn of the true > light...In correspondence with the manner of the sun's rising, prayers > are made looking towards the sunrise in the east. Whence also the most > ancient temples looked towards the west,(Pagan temples?) that people > might be taught to turn to the east when facing the images....the East > is the direction that must be assigned to His worship…...but few > know.....the reasons for this, I think, are not easily discovered by > anyone...But this tradition of the apostles is unwritten. https://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/109124/pope-leo-i-and-worshiping-towards-the-east-how-can-he-say-all-this-and-still-w **Pope Leo 1 seems to be against this practice, also the most ancient churches in Rome seems to be not oriented with entrances from West so people to be able to pray towards the East:** > The foolish practice of some who turn to the sun and bow to it is > reprehensible > > such a system of teaching proceeds also the ungodly practice of > certain foolish folk who worship the sun as it rises > > even some Christians think it is so proper to do this > > We are full of grief and vexation that this should happen, which is > partly due to the fault of ignorance and partly to the spirit of > heathenism: > > because although some of them do perhaps worship the Creator of that > fair light rather than the Light itself, which is His creature, > > yet we must abstain even from the appearance of this observance: > > for if one who has abandoned the worship of gods, finds it in our own > worship, will he not hark back again to this fragment of his old > superstition, > > as if it were allowable, when he sees it to be common both to > Christians and to infidels? (The apostle is saying similar thing - 2 > Cor. 6:15) From Sermon XXVII (c. 450 AD) of Pope Leo I https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/360327.htm **The apostle:** > **2 Cor. 6:15** And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? > > **Romans 1:25** Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is > blessed for ever. Amen. -------------------------------------------------- ----------------------- **5. The winter solstice birthday of Horus - 25 December for the roman times? Also celebrating the conception 9 months before the birth:** > Thus we shall attack the many boring people who find pleasure in > associating the activities of these gods with the seasonal changes of > the atmosphere or with the growths, sowing, and plowing of crops, and > who say that Osiris is being buried when the corn is sown and hidden > in the earth, and that he lives again and reappears when it begins to > sprout. For this reason it is said that Isis, when she was aware of > her being pregnant, put on a protective amulet on the sixth day of > Phaophi, **and at the winter solstice gave birth to Harpocrates,** > imperfect and prematurely born, amid plants that burgeoned and > sprouted before their season . . . **and they are said to celebrate the > days of her confinement after the spring equinox.** > > **(Plutarch, On Isis and Osiris, ISIS AND OSIRIS, 377 )** https://archive.org/stream/plutarch-isis-osiris-loeb/Plutarch_Isis_Osiris_Loeb_djvu.txt https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A2008.01.0239%3Asection%3D65 -------------------------------------------------------------- **5.1 About the winter solstice on 25 December, by ancient writings:** **(Today the winter solstice is around 21-22 December - but for the romans it seems to be 25 December)** **From sources:** https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b5/The_natural_history_of_Pliny_1855.pdf > Roman writers regularly quote the date of the solstice as the 25th of > December. > > **Columella, a 1st century CE agricultural writer, on the subject (De > re rustica 9.14.12):** > > ab occasu Vergiliarum ad brumam, quae fere conficitur **circa VIII > kalendas Ianuarii** in octava parte Capricorni ... > > From the setting of the Pleiades to midwinter, which occurs roughly > **around the 8th day before the kalends of January** (i.e. 25 December), > at 8° in Capricorn ... > > > > **Pliny the Elder, also 1st cent. CE (Natural history 18.221):** > > ... omnesque eae differentiae fiunt in octavis partibus signorum, > bruma Capricorni **a. d. VIII kal. Ian.** fere. > > ... and all these changes occur at 8° in the (zodiacal) signs, the > winter solstice in Capricorn on roughly **the 8th day before the kalends > of January** (i.e. 25 December). > https://kiwihellenist.blogspot.com/2015/12/christmas-and-its-supposed-pagan-links.html > > > > http://novaroma.org/nr/Roman_dates#Table_of_Dates > > Table about 25 - http://novaroma.org/nr/Roman_dates#Table_of_Dates http://novaroma.org/nr/Roman_dates#Table_of_Dates -------------------------------------------- **6. The halo on the icons as the pagan tradition for the "gods":** ------------------------------------- https://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/112600/do-the-catholic-orthodox-believe-that-the-halo-is-apostolic-unwritten-traditio https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9C%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BF%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%86%D0%B0 https://mount-athos.org/en/mount-athos/icons-relics/galaktotrofousa-hilandar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nursing_Madonna https://folia.unifr.ch/documents/306232/files/Bacci_2007pisabizantina.pdf https://es.pinterest.com/pin/612348880621533991/ https://russianicons.wordpress.com/2016/06/23/the-nursing-goddess-from-isis-to-mary/ https://www.academia.edu/113383765/Veiling_and_Head_Covering_in_Late_Antiquity_Between_Ideology_Aesthetics_and_Practicality https://iconreader.wordpress.com/2011/07/03/milk-giver-icon-not-scandalized-by-the-incarnation/ https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9C%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BF%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%86%D0%B0 https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/article/jesus-portrayals -------------------------------------------- Date 7th-6th centuries B.C. https://www.mfab.hu/artworks/1812/ Isis lactans (Isis nursing Harpocrates). Marble, approximately one and a half meters high. Vatican Museums, Pio Clementino Gallery A GRAECO-EGYPTIAN TERRACOTTA ISIS AND HARPOCRATES CIRCA 2ND-1ST CENTURY B.C. https://www.christies.com/lot/a-graeco-egyptian-terracotta-isis-and-harpocrates-circa-5546815/?intobjectid=5546815&lid=1 Roman terracotta statuette of Isis lactans, from Herculaneum 1st c. CE Soprintendenza Pompei, inv. 76724 Photographed on display in the exhibition "Il Nilo a Pompeii: visioni d'Egitto nel mondo romano" (The Nile at Pompeii: visions of Egypt in the Roman world) at the Museo Egizio in Torino, Piemonte, Italy.... https://www.flickr.com/photos/dandiffendale/30258001226 Statuette, Isis, Horus 664–30 B.C. Julia Domna, AR denarius, Rome mint. IVLIA DOMNA AVG, draped bust right / FECVNDITAS, Fecunditas seated right, holding one child in her arms and and another standing at her feet. RIC 534; RSC 42. https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/ric/julia_domna/t.html All this is from sources on the internet, I can not guarantee how accurate it is.

According to the catholic and orthodox, is this apostolic unwritten tradition or adopted pagan tradition as mentioned by newadvent website? If it is adopted pagan tradition, then this means that other pagan traditions could be incorporated in the church? Do they fall under the anathema of the 7 ecumenical council, since these traditions are unwritten? If this is the case, would there be apostolic unwritten traditions and pagan unwritten traditions in the church as unwritten traditions? How should this be understood? ------------------------------------------- > **Second Council of Nicaea – 787 A.D. ( 7th ecumenical council):** > >If anyone rejects any written or unwritten tradition of the church, let > him be anathema. - [Second Council of Nicaea – 787 A.D.](https://www.papalencyclicals.net/councils/ecum07.htm) > **2 Thessalonians 2:15** > >Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and **hold the traditions** which ye have been taught, **whether by word, or our epistle**. > >https://biblehub.com/2_thessalonians/2-15.htm ---------------------------------------- > > **1 Corinthians 4:6** > >Now these things, brothers, I have applied to > myself and Apollos for your sakes, **so that in us you may learn not to > go beyond what is written**, so that no one of you will become puffed up > on behalf of one against the other. > > https://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/4-6.htm --------------------------------------- > **2 Cor 6:14-18** > >14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with > unbelievers: **for what fellowship hath righteousness with > unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 15 And > what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that > believeth with an infidel? 16 And what agreement hath the temple of > God with idols?** for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath > said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, > and they shall be my people. **17 Wherefore come out from among them, > and be ye separate,** saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; > and I will receive you. 18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall > be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. ---------------------------------------------- > **Deut. 12:30-31** > >30 **Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them**, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and > that thou inquire not after their gods, **saying, How did these nations > serve their gods? even so will I do likewise. 31 Thou shalt not do so > unto the LORD thy God:** **for every abomination to the LORD, which he > hateth, have they done unto their gods;** for even their sons and their > daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods. -------------------------------------------- This information is from the internet, I can not guarantee how accurate it is. But it seems that most if not all fake "gods" had halos before the Christian iconography? **Pagan:** **(Content notice: This post contains depictions of nudity that may be visible on the photos of the pagan mosaics.)** (2nd c. AD) Dionysos, Nike & Maenad (Bakche) - Zeugma mosaic - Triumph of Dionysus (Gaziantep Museum - Turkey) This pavement comes from the House of Poseidon. 1.https://www.flickr.com/photos/28433765@N07/50616496196 2.https://pbase.com/dosseman/dionysostriumf 3.https://pbase.com/dosseman/image/170042225 4.https://pbase.com/dosseman/daedalus ---------------------------------------------- (Naked!) (circa 3rd-4th c. AD.) A ROMAN MARBLE MOSAIC PANEL Depicting the goddess Venus rising from the sea, supported by two tritons, both with a human torso, equine legs and a fish-tailed lower body, the goddess haloed, holding a mirror in her left hand and a cosmetic applicator in her right, nude but for a mantle wrapped around her hips and legs, coiled bracelets on each wrist, a fish in the lower corners. 1.https://tr.pinterest.com/pin/1121607482184251399/ 2.https://www.christies.com/en/lot/lot-1818486 --------------------------------------------------------------- (3rd - 4th century) Mosaic from the House of Menander with Zeus. Room 20, Panel A (Seattle Art Museum) - (Daphne, suburb of Antioch, Antakya) (limestone and marble tesserae) 1.https://www.bridgemanimages.com/en/roman/mosaic-from-the-house-of-menander-with-zeus-3rd-4th-century-limestone-and-marble-tesserae/limestone-and-marble-tesserae/asset/6348234 2.https://antiochmuseumofart.org/house-of-menander/ 3.https://www.flickr.com/photos/mharrsch/22214048901/in/pool-ancient_mosaics_in_turkey/ https://www.meisterdrucke.ie/similar/943506.html ------------------------------------------------ (2nd-3rd c. AD,) Roman mosaic showing Apollo and Daphne, (Princeton University Art Museum) --------------------------------------------------------------- (Naked)“The Triumph of Neptune,” a late 2nd century CE mosaic from La Chebba, Tunisia. The central scene depicts a bearded Neptune riding in a chariot pulled by sea horses; he is flanked by his sons Triton and Proteus. The corners of the mosaic feature women and agricultural scenes representing the four seasons. As bringer and withholder of water, Neptune would have held agency over seasonal change. Bardo National Museum, Tunis, Tunisia https://mythopedia.com/topics/neptune/ https://smarthistory.org/mosaic-decoration-at-the-hammath-tiberias-synagogue/ --------------------------------------------------------------- (Naked) One of the mosaic panels located in the museum of the city of Shebha in southern Syria. Each panel recounts ancient Greek myths introduced by the Romans in the mid-third century AD. This panel depicts Aphrodite and Oris, the goddess of beauty. The panel depicts women and the goddess of love competing to win the weapons of the goddess Oris. The panel is decorated with inscriptions, ornaments, and numerous aesthetic motifs that illustrate the myth. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shahba ------------------------------------------------------------------- (123 AD) Roman mosaic of Hunting goddess Diana found in the (baths of Oceanus at Sabratha built in 123 AD) https://x.com/libyanhistory/status/873175058302324736 https://caffetteriadellemore.forumcommunity.net/?t=47244810 https://www.temehu.com/Cities_sites/museum-of-sabratha.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------- (Naked) Triumph of Poseidon and Amphitrite, showing the couple in procession. Detail of a large Roman mosaic from Cirta, Roman Africa (c. 315–325 AD, now at the Louvre) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neptune_%28mythology%29 ---------------------------------------------------- Hatay Archaeological Museum, Antakya, Turkey. Artemis, the fierce goddess of the hunt This mosaic of Artemis was discovered in the ancient city of Issus. It was found in the tepidarium of a bathhouse in the city. The 43-square-meter mosaic floor dates from Late Antiquity (3rd and 4th centuries AD). At the center of the mosaic is the goddess Artemis, ruler of the wild, and around her are figures of animals and plants. https://chroniquescynegetiques.com/2024/10/03/artemis-la-farouche-deesse-de-la-chasse/ -------------------------------------------------------- (Naked) Aion enthroned, holding a zodiac wheel in his right hand, a scepter in his left, his head surrounded by a holo or aura [3rd cent AD] - Arles, Musée de l'Arles antique - wm Aion (Greek: Αἰών) is a Hellenistic deity associated with time, the orb or circle encompassing the universe, and the zodiac. The "time" represented by Aion is unbounded, in contrast to Chronos as empirical time divided into past, present, and future. He is thus a god of eternity, associated with mystery religions concerned with the afterlife, such as the mysteries of Cybele, Dionysus, Orpheus, and Mithras. Source: wikipedia en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aion_(deity) --------------------------------------------------- A grand mosaic of Isis and Serapis, Roman early 3rd century https://www.pinterest.com/pin/341288477982180030/ Roman mosaic depicting Isis and Serapis (3rd cent. AD) https://the-avocado.org/2018/03/05/navigium-isidis-an-ancient-religious-festival/ https://medium.com/@ancient.rome/why-are-greek-roman-and-norse-mythologies-so-similar-8bb530da993c Emperor Septimius Severus (193–211 AD) as Serapis and his wife Julia Domna as Isis on a mosaic from Huwara, Egypt. Altes Museum, Berlin. Early 3rd century AD. https://www.augustaraurica.ch/assets/content/files/publikationen/Magazin-AR/AR-2017_2_Isis-Fortuna_Ruetti.pdf Roman mosaic depicting Isis and Serapis (3rd cent. CE) https://cjapedia.com/happy-navigium-isidis-march-5 ------------------------------------------------------- Niche with a polychrome mosaic of Silvanus Excavated in 1861 in the Palazzo Imperiale, in a room next to the mithraeum. Date: reign of Commodus or Septimius Severus. W. 0.87, h. 1.57, h. of Silvanus 0.71. With text OSTIAE EFFOS ANNO MDCCCLXI. In front of the niche a lamp for two wicks was found, perhaps inv. nr. 625. A relief of Silvanus was found nearby. Inv. nr. 10729. Benndorf-Schöne 1867, nr. 551. Arachne 20773. Photo: SO IV, Tav. 211. https://www.ostia-antica.org/museums/mus-vm-ml-silvanus.htm ------------------------------------------------ **Considered Christian:** (7th c. AD) - (634-730 AD) - Saint Demetrius of Thessaloniki. (Hagios Demetrios - Thessaloniki - Greece). Votive mosaic representation from the 7th century on the northeast pillar of the church. The basilica is famous for six extant mosaic panels, dated to the period between the latest reconstruction and the inauguration of the Byzantine Iconoclasm in 730. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagios_Demetrios https://www.macedonian-heritage.gr/HellenicMacedonia/en/img_C233a.html https://www.flickr.com/photos/60661697@N07/51241589472/in/pool-ancientgreece/ St. Demetrius. 7th century. Basilica of St. Demetrius, Thessaloniki. Mosaics on the pillars at the entrance to the altar and on the western wall of the main nave https://www.icon-art.info/bibliogr_item.php?id=21 https://macedonia.kroraina.com/en/rheb/rheb_mp.htm#1 -------------------------------------------------------- (No beard)(the end of 4th c. AD - the beg. of 5th c. AD) - (Christ)(Church of the Savior of the Latomou Monastery (Church of Hosios David)), (Thessaloniki, Greece). Mosaic with Christ and probably with Saints Peter and Paul on the sides - Lazarev attributes these mosaics to the end of the 5th beginning of the 6th century of the contemporary period to the Theodoric period connecting them to the mosaics of the basilica Sant'Apollinare Nuovo in Ravenna. 1.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Hosios_David 2.https://macedonia.kroraina.com/en/rheb/rheb_mp.htm#1 3.https://ru.pinterest.com/anastasyatatarn/chiesa-del-salvatore-del-monastero-di-latomou-chie/ https://vk.com/photo-35220730_312236388 https://flickr.com/photos/28433765@N07/15338085684/in/pool-2740017@N23/ Jesus Christ in glory. Mosaic in conch apses. End of 5— beginning of 6 th. c AD https://www.pravenc.ru/text/2581611.html https://ru.pinterest.com/pin/223843043962682817/ --------------------------------------- Justinian I AR Light Miliarense. Constantinople mint. Struck 527-537 AD. D N IVSTINIANVS P P AVG, pearl diademed, draped, cuirassed bust left / GLORIA ROMANORVM, Justinian, nimbate, standing facing, head left, raising hand and holding globe; star in right field; mintmark COB. DOC I 26. https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/byz/justinian_I/t.html -------------------------------------------- St. Aquilin Chapel, (4th c. AD ? Beg.of the 5th c. AD) mosaic. (No beard, short hair) https://www.flickr.com/photos/roger_joseph/5417358183/ https://vk.com/photo-35220730_312171522 Christ teaching the Apostles , Late4th century https://art.kunstmatrix.com/en/artwork/1882721/christ-teaching-apostles ------------------------------------------- Angelic Ranks (Dominions and Powers). Mosaic of the 7th century. Church of the Dormition of the Virgin Mary. Nicaea. https://vk.com/photo-35220730_312783865 Heavenly Powers. Mosaic of the Church of the Dormition of the Blessed Virgin Mary. 7th century? (7 c. AD?, 9 c. AD?) (2 sources 7c. AD and 1 source 9.c. AD) (9. C AD) https://azbyka.ru/otechnik/ikona/iskusstvo-vizantii-4-15-vekov/4 (7 c. AD) https://www.icon-art.info/bibliogr_item.php?id=21 https://www.pravenc.ru/text/200147.html ---------------------------------------- Santa Costanza in Rome. End of the 4th c. AD. The Mausoleum of Costanza (Constantina) (VIII) This 4th-century mausoleum was built under Constantine the Great for his daughter Constantina (Costanza), who died in 354 AD. His other daughter, Helena, is also buried here. The mosaics on the ambulatory vaults are an excellent example of late antique and early Christian art. https://vk.com/photo-35220730_312171210 https://www.flickr.com/photos/isawnyu/7556340750 https://www.mediastorehouse.com/search.html?search=ancient+halo ----------------------------------------- Mural painting of Jesus Christ from the catacomb of Commodilla. Rome, late 4th century. The symbols on either side are Alpha and Omega. Remember that the Christ is "beginning and end." Revelation 22, 13: "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last." https://vk.com/photo-35220730_312138059 https://diglib.library.vanderbilt.edu/diglib-fulldisplay.pl?SID=20250124369513274&code=act&RC=49950&Row=109 --------------------------------------------- Mosaic of Orans and Donors (5th-6th century) Church of St. Demetrius - Thessaloniki - Greece. Wall mosaics from the small north colonnade in the Church of St Demetrius Thessaloniki, saved from the fire of 1917, 5th-6th c. Museum of Byzantine Culture, Thessaloniki, Greece https://www.thebyzantinelegacy.com/demetrios-thessaloniki -------------------------------------------- Santa Pudenziana in Rome. 390AD - (401-417) AD The 4th century Basilica di Santa Pudenziana contains some fine mosaics, including this one in its apse. I gather that it is the earliest Christian mosaic to be found anywhere in Rome (it dates from 390). As the excellent Cadogan guide to Rome says, 'artists had yet to decide on the familiar iconography of the saints; here all have become honorary Roman citizens ... in their senatorial togas'. https://vk.com/photo-35220730_312171270 https://www.flickr.com/photos/24151047@N05/47846198011 https://my-passion.blog/2018/11/29/oldest-paintings-of-jesus/ ------------------------------------------------- The Good Shepherd. Mid-5th century. Mausoleum of Galla Placidia, Ravenna. Mosaic in the lunette Лазарев 1986 - История византийской живописи. Т. 2. OCR hires #21.pdf https://www.icon-art.info/bibliogr_item.php?id=21 https://vk.com/photo-35220730_312236302 The Good Shepherd , c 425 AD Mausoleum of Galla Placidia, Ravenna, Italy https://art.kunstmatrix.com/en/artwork/1882044/good-shepherd https://my-passion.blog/2018/11/29/oldest-paintings-of-jesus/ https://byzantinenews.blogspot.com/2014/02/cfp-miracles-and-wonders-in-antiquity.html https://azbyka.ru/otechnik/ikona/iskusstvo-vizantii-4-15-vekov/1 ---------------------------------------------------- Baptism of Christ and the Twelve Apostles. Mid-5th century. Orthodox Baptistery, Ravenna. Mosaics in the dome Лазарев 1986 - История византийской живописи. Т. 2. OCR hires #21.pdf pg. 32 https://www.icon-art.info/bibliogr_item.php?id=21 Domed Mosaic Ceiling , 547 AD Basilica of San Vitale, Ravenna, Italy. https://art.kunstmatrix.com/en/artwork/1882765/domed-mosaic-ceiling Ravenna. Mosaic in Baptistery of Neon. 5th century. Baptism of Jesus. Italy. https://www.alamy.com/ravenna-mosaic-in-baptistery-of-neon-5th-century-baptism-of-jesus-italy-image238557621.html https://www.flickr.com/photos/35409814@N00/11904625526/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/60661697@N07/17795977821/in/pool-1307009@N23/ -------------------------------------------- (River “god”? to left?) Arian Baptistery in Ravenna. Late 5th-early 6th c. AD. Mosaics in the dome https://www.icon-art.info/bibliogr_item.php?id=21 https://www.flickr.com/photos/bobbex/52646912056 https://flickr.com/photos/27305838@N04/15953924945/in/pool-2740017@N23/ ------------------------------------------------------ (Dark skin) 526-530 AD.Christ - Church of Santi Cosma e Damiano. Rome. https://vk.com/photo-35220730_313024499 https://israelandpalestinediary.blogspot.com/2015/12/was-jesus-palestinian-or-was-jesus.html ------------------------------------------------------ Jesus Christ flanked by Saints Peter and Paul · Catacombs of Saints Peter and Marcellinus, Rome, 4th century AD. https://my-passion.blog/2018/11/29/oldest-paintings-of-jesus/ Christ between Saint Peter and Saint Paul, above four martyrs worshiping the Mystic Lamb, 4th century (dome of the Catacombs of the Saints Peter and Marcellinus, Rome). https://arsartisticadventureofmankind.wordpress.com/2014/07/07/early-western-christian-art-during-the-iiird-ivth-and-vth-centuries-the-painting-of-the-catacombs/ ----------------------------------- Year of Object(s) Creation: 550 A.D. (approximate) Provenience Nation: Cyprus Provenience Location: Church of the Panayia Kanakaria Year Removed from Findspot: 1975 (approximate) https://research.cgu.edu/cultural-property-disputes-resource/cpdr/church-of-panagia-kanakaria-mosaics/ ---------------------------------- **Sources:** 1. In early Christian art the nimbus certainly is not found on images of God and celestial beings, but only on figures borrowed from profane art, and in Biblical scenes; 2. Hence it follows that the Bible furnished no example for the bestowal of a halo upon individual saintly personages. 3. As a matter of fact the nimbus, as an inheritance from ancient art tradition, was readily adopted and ultimately found the widest application because the symbol of light for all divine, saintly ideals is offered by nature and not infrequently used in Scripture. 4. The nimbus of early Christian art manifests only in a few particular drawings, its relationship with that of late antiquity. 5. In the first half of the fourth century, Christ received a nimbus only when portrayed seated upon a throne or in an exalted and princely character, but it had already been used since Constantine, in pictures of the emperors, and was emblematic, not so much of divine as of human dignity and greatness. 6. The number of personages who were given a halo increased rapidly, until towards the end of the sixth century the use of symbols in the Christian Church became as general as it had formerly been in pagan art. https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11080b.htm ---------------------------------------------------- 1. NIMB (from Latin nimbus – cloud) – a glow around the head – as a sign of divine power, originated in the East. In Ancient Egypt and Mesopotamia, deities were depicted with a solar disk above their heads or with rays coming out of their heads. Later in Ancient Greece, the god of light Apollo and the god of the sun Helios began to be depicted with a radiant halo around their heads. The pagan halo is a symbol of the shining sun, divine flame, sacred light. 2. THE IDEA OF THE CHRISTIAN HALO was formed only in the 4th century. In Christianity, the halo is a symbol of participation in the essence of the One God. Since "God is light" (1 John 1:5), the halo is part of this light. The halo reveals the essence of Christ as the Heavenly Light revealed to the world. On the vault of the cubicle of Leo in the catacombs of Commodilla is one of the first images of Christ with a halo around his head. This fresco dates back to the second half of the 4th century. Jesus Christ. Second half of the 4th century. Fresco. Catacombs of Commodilla, Rome. 3. In the iconography of Angels, the halo becomes a mandatory attribute in the 5th century. 4. The nimbuses of the Apostles and saints appear only at the end of the 5th century. 5. A cross-shaped (cross-shaped) halo is a round halo with a cross placed inside it, which symbolizes the atoning sacrifice of Christ in the name of saving humanity. Among the earliest known images of Christ with a cross-shaped halo is a bas-relief from a sarcophagus of Constantinople origin from the beginning of the 5th century, depicting Christ with the apostles. The relief is poorly preserved, but traces of the crossbars of the cross can be seen on the halo. 6. By 6 th. c. AD the cross on the nimbus of Christ becomes almost mandatory. Ovchinnikov A. N. Symbolism of Christian Art. – M.: Rodnik, 1999. Pp. 10–19. https://dzen.ru/a/ZXl5T1_d5C72wmOv -------------------------------

Why do we see swastika in many early Christian churches? Swastika is considered pagan symbol bearing (prosperity and good luck). There are many pagan mosaics and other in Europe that have swastika, from the Romans, Greeks, Thracians etc. How was the pagan symbol adopted, and what does it mean in Christianity? Does any of the church fathers talk about that it is allowable to take pagan traditions / symbols and convert them to Christian with new meaning? I have heard that Basil the great has said something, but I don't know where to look to find what he have said. There are many more churches with swastikas and other pagan symbols that where probably borrowed from the pagans. [Swastika (Wikipedia)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika) What does the catholic, orthodox and protestants say about this? Does anyone state that the apostles used these symbols, and learned the people to use them by oral tradition? And what is the reason, will we not look very similar to the pagans if we use their symbols. If the pagans served demons using these signs, where these signs not inspired by the demons that learned the people to serve them by using these signs? How should this be understood? Thanks in advance. There seems to be a church or prayer hall dated 241AD where we can see swastika in it - Church at Megiddo The Ancient Church at Megiddo The house was built around 231 ce and its adaptation for use as a church can be securely dated to 240/241 ce. The Megiddo church would be contemporaneous with this building. Indeed, its construction, on the chronology suggested by Tepper, would predate the Christianizing renovation at Dura Europos by about a decade. The earliest Christian inscriptions that can be dated with some level of confidence stem from the third century ce and later.36 The floor inscriptions at Megiddo would thus rank among the oldest epigraphic data for Christianity.37 The Akeptous inscription would probably offer the earliest epigraphic occurrence of nomina sacra,38 and one of the earliest inscriptional references to Jesus Christ.39 And the mosaic floor itself would be a very rare instance of a pre-Constantinian Christian mosaic.40 If dated towards the end of the third century ce and especially after 313 ce, its significance would diminish, but it would still constitute valuable material evidence for ancient Christianity. [The Ancient Church at Megiddo: The Discovery and an Assessment of its Significance](https://2024.sci-hub.st/3600/018178562bf6388f4cfcc2ae31062ecb/adams2008.pdf) [he Mosaics in the Early Christian Basilica](https://www.academia.edu/figures/13123117/figure-10-mosaic-in-the-nave-detail-photo-by-author-misko) **5th c. AD** [Basilica of Bezistan](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Basilica+of+Bezistan/@41.1115081,20.0820876,-7a,46.5y/data=!3m8!1e2!3m6!1sCIHM0ogKEICAgICM4v6MogE!2e10!3e12!6shttps:%2F%2Flh3.googleusercontent.com%2Fgps-cs-s%2FAC9h4nrNLmhkUvh19_R8pwBsGqVrvQAccAZkSIkUEcjuWQCHgxoki9La06ozGPuCEr9abeoLqcZKSQGP8PqO3lagdCqqwORVLMTcv75bK8DJn1JfMnjzhYKIPFIthuCkhBBe5TOeNh18qA%3Dw203-h151-k-no!7i4032!8i3016!4m11!1m2!2m1!1sPaleochristian+Basilica+!3m7!1s0x13504252132b80ff:0xf42f7dbed22221b2!8m2!3d41.1123356!4d20.0816528!10e5!15sChdQYWxlb2NocmlzdGlhbiBCYXNpbGljYVoZIhdwYWxlb2NocmlzdGlhbiBiYXNpbGljYZIBE2hpc3RvcmljYWxfbGFuZG1hcmuaASRDaGREU1VoTk1HOW5TMFZKUTBGblNVUjZlbEI2YUd0blJSQUKqAVwQASobIhdwYWxlb2NocmlzdGlhbiBiYXNpbGljYSgAMh4QASIa-Ru4kMrII6__LK6712EEuiYlpxWUOYQE-W8yGxACIhdwYWxlb2NocmlzdGlhbiBiYXNpbGljYeABAPoBBAgSEBk!16s%2Fg%2F11glw_f49c?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDkxNy4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D) Early Christian Basilica church at Delphi The foundations and the mosaics of the narthex and the aisles of a late 5th – early 6th c. AD Christian Basilica were found in the place now occupied by “Apollo Hotel”. https://thedelphiguide.com/early-christian-basilica-church-at-delphi/ https://www.discoveringkos.com/destination-item/early-christian-basilica-of-palaiopanayia/ https://archaeologyinbulgaria.wordpress.com/2015/04/02/archaeologists-discover-hand-from-huge-roman-statue-at-early-christian-site-in-bulgarias-sandanski/#:~:text=The%20Bishop%27s%20Basilica%20is%20the,Operational%20Program%20%E2%80%9CRegional%20Development%E2%80%9D Jerash Church of Marianos - built in 570 AD under the episcopate of Bishop Marianos ========================================================= In pagan cultures: Some statements by some sites. The information needs to be checked. The association of the swastika with deities is certainly seen during the Geometric and Orientalising periods. In the Geometric period, we certainly have evidence for the existence of the Olympian Pantheon, ranging from shrines to Zeus, Apollo, Demeter, Hera and Artemis (Coldstream 2003: 327-332). However in the Geometric period we find that the swastika can be found, especially, with images of Artemis.....but it also gives us proof in the it being used in association with deities,.....Now Artemis is not the only goddess we see associated with the swastika, in this example we see it associated with, what one might presume, to be Demeter....We have seen it being used in association with deities, animals, mythology and people https://learning-history.com/greek-goddess-artemis/ https://www.greecehighdefinition.com/blog/2019/1/22/ancient-greek-origins-of-the-swastika-in-archaic-greece This person in the video also says that the swastika is associated with the sun and idols calling them "the gods", luck, victory etc. It does not seem to be just decoration without meaning. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnsEBTL5mZc How accurate is all this I can not verify. ..................................................... Floor Mosaic Depicting Dionysos's Discovery of Ariadne on Naxos Roman, probably from Syria Roman 3rd to 4th centuries Stone tesserae in mortar https://www.miho.jp/booth/html/artcon/00001755e.htm https://pbase.com/dosseman/dionysostriumf (2nd c. AD) Dionysos, Nike & Maenad (Bakche) - Zeugma mosaic - Triumph of Dionysus (Gaziantep Museum - Turkey) This pavement comes from the House of Poseidon. 1.https://www.flickr.com/photos/28433765@N07/50616496196 2.https://pbase.com/dosseman/dionysostriumf 3.https://pbase.com/dosseman/image/170042225 4.https://pbase.com/dosseman/daedalus https://assaffeller.com/%D7%9E%D7%99%D7%AA%D7%95%D7%9C%D7%95%D7%92%D7%99%D7%94/%D7%A4%D7%A1%D7%99%D7%A4%D7%A1%D7%99-%D7%AA%D7%95%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%A1-%D7%9E%D7%95%D7%96%D7%99%D7%90%D7%95%D7%9F-%D7%91%D7%90%D7%A8%D7%93%D7%95 Triumph of Neptune and Amphitrite, mosaic from Utica, Tunisia, Roman civilization, 3rd-4th century AD, Detail https://www.bridgemanimages.com/en/noartistknown/triumph-of-neptune-and-amphitrite-mosaic-from-utica-tunisia-roman-civilization-3rd-4th-century-ad/nomedium/asset/2569228 https://assaffeller.com/%D7%9E%D7%99%D7%AA%D7%95%D7%9C%D7%95%D7%92%D7%99%D7%94/%D7%A4%D7%A1%D7%99%D7%A4%D7%A1%D7%99-%D7%AA%D7%95%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%A1-%D7%9E%D7%95%D7%96%D7%99%D7%90%D7%95%D7%9F-%D7%91%D7%90%D7%A8%D7%93%D7%95 Swastika and halo in the pagan culture - also found in the Christian iconography in later time some sources say - 4 th c. AD - catacombs of Commodilla is one of the first images of Christ with a halo around his head. This is just to show that there seems to be adoption of pagan elements in later Christianity. ------------------------------------------------------------- ENGLISH T**he ancient Christian Church adopted the Greek "gamma cross," giving it the meaning of salvation.** The swastika is found in paintings of early Christian catacombs, on medieval tombstones, and on priestly vestments of the 12th-14th centuries. The swastika is present in the mosaic covering the floor of the Basilica of the Nativity in Bethlehem. It is depicted among fragments of the oldest mosaic floor, preserved from the original basilica from the time of Emperor Constantine the Great and his mother Helena (the church was founded in the 320s by order of Emperor Constantine). Inside the swastika is a square, in the center of which is an inscription: Greek ΪΧΘΥΣ - "fish", this word was used in early Christian symbolism as an abbreviation: "Jesus Christ, Son of God, Savior." https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1%D0%B2%D0%B0%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B0#%D0%A5%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B2%D0%BE Basilica of the Nativity, Bethlehem, Palestine, 4th century. The 4th-century floor mosaics. https://ru.pinterest.com/pin/223843043964727318/ https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1%D0%B2%D0%B0%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B0#%D0%A5%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B2%D0%BE https://vp-sssr.ru/download/works/35/k-voprosu-o-zaprete-ekstremistskoi-simvoliki.pdf Saint Sophia Cathedral in Kyiv. Altar mosaic https://tehlib.com/arhitektura/sofijskij-sobor-v-kieve/ Crux Gammata. Mosaic of the Saint Sophia Cathedral of Kiev, 11th century AD. https://irenecaesar.wordpress.com/tag/%D1%81%D0%B2%D0%B0%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B0-%D0%B2-%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B7%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%B8/ Lalibela, Ethiopia, with a Cross, which consists of the multiplied Gammadion / Gammadia. [The Crux Gammata is the Tetragrammaton](https://irenecaesar.wordpress.com/tag/%D1%81%D0%B2%D0%B0%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B0-%D0%B2-%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B7%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%B8/) Also the equal armed cross as seen on the processional Coptic cross. https://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/112650/is-the-equal-armed-cross-apostolic-unwritten-tradition-according-to-the-orthodox The links are shared only because of the images as sources. I don't guarantee the accurateness of the information. This is just what I see on the interned and it seems that swastika is even used on processional crosses. There can be also seen a Latin cross in the form of swastika the sources say 11 c. AD. It seems that there is some meaning in the swastika it is not just an ornament from this what I see if the information is correct. Also ΪΧΘΥΣ in the center of the swastika.

> And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn. - Mark 2:7 Swaddling clothes are narrow strips of cloth wrapped around an infant to restrict movement, and also to give it a snug feeling. Usually , the work of cleaning the new-born baby and clothing it , is done by the mid-wife , who could either be hired (Gen 35:17; Gen 38:28; Ex 1:16 ) , or be a close female relative of the expectant mother . Mary is traditionally believed to have been a teenager when Jesus was born to her. Notwithstanding the fact the Joseph and Mary were travelling, they could have taken along a close lady relative to take charge when the time would arrive. My question therefore is: Did Mary have the assistance of a midwife at the time of Jesus' birth? What do the traditions of Catholic Church say about it?

Is there contradiction between John Chrysostom and John Damascus in regard to the interpretation of Matthew 24:27; Luke 17:24 according to the catholic and orthodox churches? What can be said, about it and are there additional writings that has to be taken in consideration? The most prominent explanation about the prayer towards the East today is that Christ will come from the East and this verse will be pointed to - **Matthew 24:27** that is equivalent to **Luke 17:24**. But it seems that this believe, may be of later time, maybe popularized by John Damascus? Comparing the interpretations of John Chrysostom on **Matthew 24:27** with what John Damascus said about the verse, at first sight there seems to be contradiction and John Chrysostom seems that does not mention that Christ will come from East, but that at the same time everywhere. Neither do Basil, Gregory of Nysa, Cyril of Jerusalem, Origen, Tertullian, Clement of Alexandria mention that the reason for praying towards the East is that Christ will come form the East, at least it is not mentioned by them, when writing about the reason for the prayer towards the East or the similar practice. --------------------------------------------- **John Chrysostom on Matthew 24:27** > Having told them how Antichrist comes, as, for instance, that it will > be in a place; He says how Himself also comes. How then does He > Himself come? As the lightning comes out of the east, and shines even > unto the west, so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be. For > wheresoever the carcass is, there also will the eagles be gathered > together. Matthew 24:27-28 > > How then shines the lightning? It needs not one to talk of it, it > needs not a herald, but even to them that sit in houses, and to them > in chambers **it shows itself in an instant of time throughout the whole > world. So shall that coming be, showing itself at once everywhere** by > reason of the shining forth of His glory. But He mentions also another > sign, where the carcass is, there also shall the eagles be; meaning > the multitude of the angels, of the martyrs, of all the saints..” > https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/200176.htm --------------------------------------------------------- **John Damascus on Matthew 24:27 - Chapter 12. Concerning Worship towards the East.** > It is not without reason or by chance that we worship towards the > East. But seeing that we are composed of a visible and an invisible > nature, that is to say, of a nature partly of spirit and partly of > sense, we render also a twofold worship to the Creator; > >............ > > **And when He was received again into Heaven He was borne towards the > East**, and thus His apostles worship Him, and **thus He will come again > in the way in which they beheld Him going towards Heaven Acts 1:11;** **as > the Lord Himself said, As the lightning comes out of the East and > shines even unto the West, so also shall the coming of the Son of Man > be Matthew 24:27**. > > **So, then, in expectation of His coming we worship towards the East.** > **But this tradition of the apostles is unwritten.** For much that has > been handed down to us by tradition is unwritten. > > > **An Exposition of the Orthodox Faith (John of Damascus) > Book IV - > Chapter 12. Concerning Worship towards the East.** > https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/33044.htm ------------------------------------ **The Gospel according to Luke:** > **Luke 17:24** **For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven;** so shall > also the Son of man be in his day. -------------------------------------------- **The Gospel according to Matthew:** > **Matthew 24:27** > **For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west;** so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. --------------------------------------- Please let me know if I miss something. If you know more sources from ancient church fathers let me know. Thanks in advance.

The question is above. The term Sola Scriptura: Belief that Scripture is the final and only infallible authority for the Christian in all matters of faith and practice. While there are other authorities, they are always fallible and the must always be tested by and submit to the Scriptures. The Adherents are generally speaking Reformed Protestants/Evangelicals --- Please note, This is not directed at those who believe in **solo** scriptura: The Belief that Scripture is the sole basis and authority in the life of the Christian. Tradition is useless and misleading, and creeds and confessions are the result of man-made traditions.

My question is specifically relevant to a study I am conducting to determine if it was plausibly possible that Luke had contact with Mary while in Paul's company. I know that Mary's death is not attested anywhere in scripture. The closest information we actually have is from Epiphanius, and later Hippolytus of Thebes, though likely derivative of Epiphanius, who both claim that she allegedly lived eleven years after the crucifixion (Epiph. *Pan*. 78.11; Hipp. Theb., *Chron*. *fr*. 48 (*PG* 117, 1029)). Given the average betrothal age of twelve or thirteen years old for a young woman in first century Judaea, if Jesus was born in 3 BCE relative to Luke's deduction from the fifteenth year of Tiberius, then he was born when she was either thirteen or fourteen years old. When you calculate that forward to 34 CE (which is the year I have personally determined for the crucifixion, though that is an entirety different discussion), eleven years later would put her death around 45 CE at approximately the age of sixty. Demographically, this is perfectly normal. While average life expectancy at birth in the Roman world was low, this is largely due to infant and child mortality; those who survived into adulthood frequently lived into their sixties or beyond. Thus, Mary’s surviving to her early sixties accords well with demographic realities, making the patristic calculation historically plausible (Bruce M. Metzger, The New Testament: Its Background, Growth, and Content, 3rd ed. (Nashville: Abingdon, 2003), 25; Keith Hopkins, Death and Renewal: Sociological Studies in Roman History, Volume 2 (Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1983), 225–27). However, for Luke to have had contact with her, either he was in Paul's company much earlier than Troas, which is where most scholars put it, or Mary lived longer than the tradition given by Epiphanius. The latter is not out of the question. A lot of his information is highly questionable. So, I'm trying, as best as I'm able, to deduce a competent approximation of the time of her death to either confirm or deny the plausibility of her having contact with Luke. The relevance of this contact has to do with the intimacy of knowledge Luke has concerning his infancy narrative. He is privy to details that could only have come from someone who knew them. Things like the offset of Mary's and Elisabeth's pregnancies, or that Mary stayed with Elisabeth for three months, are not details that could have been acquired from the public records. I did read somewhere some time ago a passage that I recollect was in a patristic writing, though it's possible it was in one of the New Testament epistles. The scene mentions young women who wanted to meet with and talk with Mary about private, secret, or mysterious things. The implication is that they wanted to discuss her virginity or similar. As best as I can recall, this passage, wherever it is, provides a minor temporal time-stamp that gives a clue to the longevity of Mary's life. I know I read it. It's not my imagination. But I have tried searching for it in every way I can think to word it. I can't find it anywhere. Anyone who knows the source of what I'm looking for, I would be greatly obliged if you would share. Outside of that, any solid arguments on the time of Mary's death would be great. I don't care if it supports or undermines my thoughts concerning Luke's contact with her. I just want a factual conclusion, as best as can be had within the bounds of credible evidence.

**What did Jesus eat in relationship to his Jewish culture and tradition?** We all know that the Jews of Jesus' days observed many dietary laws that were laid down by God. What I am interested in knowing is a little more nuanced in regards to Jewish culture and tradition at the time of Jesus. For example, both wheat and barley were grown and eaten by the ancient Jews. However is there any historical references that state when barley loaves would be consumed over loaves made with wheat? I know that many Christian traditions use hosts made with wheat in their communion services, yet the Gospels also recounted the story of two fish and five loaves made of barley loaves [(John6:9)](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%206%3A9&version=NIV) . Do we have any historical records as to when one particular Jew food stuffs would be traditional used over another Jewish alternative? Although I would like an answer to the question in regards to the usage of wheat over barley, I am not limiting this post to these two food stuffs. There may be a Jewish preference or tradition in eating a particular fish on Jewish feasts over everyday meals!

Concerning Ezekiel the Prophet, considering the fact that he was in exile and isolated, does Catholic tradition have anything to say about him?

A “panel with a central oval” was inserted in the 16th century in the frontal lower part of the high altar of the S. Maria della Passione church in Milano, Italy. The altar cavity in oval shape located in the central panel contains relics and is adorned with gold gilded symbols of the passion. Inside this cavity are relics of the saints presented in small glass containers and identified with written documents. Question: Did this individual central panel with cavity for the relics require 5 crosses for the high altar to be consecrated in the 16th century? Did the imagery of this panel require sacred imagery? Is the cavity a sepulcrum?? ![The high alter with panel of Santa Maria Della Passione ][1] Please view the image of the high altar and panel on the YouTube video "[MILANO, la meravigliosa chiesa di SANTA MARIA DELLA PASSIONE](https://youtu.be/PVhw393Bdno?t=541) " at minute 9:04.

I know our Gospel of Mark is anonymous, and I am trying to understand where the traditions of attribution come from. As far as I understand, the tradition is that the Gospel was written by Mark the interpreter of Peter, who would also be the John Mark referred in *Acts of the Apostles* as a companion of Paul who split up with Barnabas at some point. As *Acts* does not state that John Mark became an interpreter of Peter, I assume these are two different claims: - **Claim 1:** "The author of Mark was the interpreter of Peter". - **Claim 2:** "The author of Mark is John Mark, the character from *Acts of the Apostles*". I know that we can trace *Claim 1* one to Papias (though we do not know if he's discussing *our* Gospel of Mark), and later to Irenaeus (who is definitely talking about our Gospel of Mark). But they do not seem to indicate that the author was also John Mark from *Acts of the Apostles*. I have failed to find our first source for *Claim 2*. **I am interested in finding out at which point in history people started assuming that John Mark (the character in *Acts of the Apostles*) is the author of our Gospel of Mark** (or, failing that, at which point people started assuming that John Mark from the Acts of the Apostles became later in his life an interpreter of Peter).

About what ancient temples does Clement of Alexandria talk about in (Clement of Alexandria, Strom. 7.7.43–46) - (It sounds to be the pagan temples?) and additionally he mentions (facing the images) what are these images? - there seems to be similarity in the book - **De architectura Chapter V** As far as I know from what I have read it seems that God had only one temple - the Jerusalem Temple Deuteronomy 12:5-14; 1 Kings 9:3; 2 Chronicles 6:6; Psalm 132:13-14; 1 Kings 8:29-30; 2 Chronicles 6:20-21; and the Jewish prayed towards the Hollie of Holies in the temple, if I am not mistaken, this is towards the West when the person is in the Jerusalem Temple and pray towards the Hollie of Holies, this person may have faced West I think? The Jerusalem Temple had entrance from the East, so in the temple people may have prayed towards the West - towards the Hollie of Holies where I think was God's presence Leviticus 16:2; Exodus 25:22; Numbers 7:89; - I think that this was the reason the Jewish prayed towards the Jerusalem Temple - because of the Hollie of Holies where should have been God's presence? - if they turned to pray towards the East (Ezekiel 8:15-16) in the Jerusalem Temple they may have prayed turned with their backs to the Hollie of Holies (*Spiritually Jeremiah 32:31-33 and Physically Ezekiel 8:15-16*?) - where God's presence should have been? If I am wrong somewhere please let me know. (Clement here is talking about temples not single temple, so I assume that he is talking about the pagan temples. Also he says - "the most ancient temples looked towards the west" this is the opposite of the Jerusalem Temple that looked towards East since the entrance was from the East I think - if this is the case then why would any true Christian look to the pagan temples in order to be taught to pray towards the East facing the images ?) - ("the most ancient temples looked towards the west") - ("that people might be taught to turn to the east") - ("when facing the images") **(Comparing this with the pagan - De architectura CHAPTER V)** > CHapter V How the Temple should Face > > 1. **THE quarter toward which temples of the immortal gods ought to face** is to be determined on the principle that, if there is no reason to hinder and the choice is free, the temple and the statue placed in the cella **should face the western quarter of the sky**. This will enable those who approach the altar with offerings or sacrifices **to face the direction of the sunrise in facing the statue in the temple**, and thus those who are undertaking vows look **toward the quarter from which the sun comes forth,** and **likewise the statues themselves appear to be coming forth out of the east to look upon them as they pray and sacrifice.** > > 2. But if the nature of the site is such as to forbid this, then the principle of determining the quarter should be changed, so that the widest possible view of the city may be had from the sanctuaries of > the gods. > > - [The Ten Books of Architecture](https://www.chenarch.com/images/arch-texts/0000-Vitruvius-50BC-Ten-Books-of-Architecture.pdf) **Clement of Alexandria, Strom. 7.7.43–46;** > In correspondence with the manner of the sun's rising, prayers are > made looking towards the sunrise in the east. 2. Whence also the most > ancient temples looked towards the west,**(Pagan temples?)** **(Maybe - (De > architectura CHAPTER V))** 3. that people might be taught to turn to the > east when facing the images. Clement of Alexandria, Strom. 7.7.43–46; **The book:** [Clement of Alexandria *The Stromata*](https://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/clement-stromata-book7.html) - [The Stromata (Book VII)](https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/02107.htm) (Should I understand that Clement of Alexandria here is teaching that the Christian is taught to pray towards East by the orientation of the pagan temples?)(So the pagan temples are pointed as reason?) **If this is the case what could we say about** **2 Cor. 6:15-18** > **15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial?** or **what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?** > **16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols?** for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in > them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my > people. > **17 Wherefore come out from among them,** and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you. 18 > And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, > saith the Lord Almighty. How should we understand this. - is this practice pagan or Christian? - is it appropriate for a Christian to practice it or is it not? Having in mind Matthew 15:9; Matthew 15:13; Matthew 7:19. The most wide and accepted interpretation today I think is the second coming from East as reason for praying towards the East. But this interpretation seems to be not that ancient, I have yet not found ancient church father that mentions the second coming from East as reason for the worship towards the East - since Basil and the rest before him does not mention that Christ will come from East and that this is the reason to pray towards the East. It seems that this interpretation gets widespread after John Damascus, but I am not sure. Maybe he was influenced by the Didascalia from probably around 4c.AD. But I still can not find any ancient church father that points to the Didascalia or mentions this interpretation, the first that mentions this is I think John Damascus after the Didascalia.

Some traditional drawings of crucifixion of Jesus show him hanging on the cross with his feet at a man's height above the ground. That seems justified, as we read in Jn 19:28-29: > After this, when Jesus knew that all was now finished, he said (in order to fulfill the scripture), “I am thirsty.” A jar full of sour wine was standing there. So they put a sponge full of the wine **on a branch of hyssop and held it to his mouth.** Given that the convict was prone to give violent and painful jerks on the cross , it had to be positioned in a pre-dug hole say, of three feet on the ground. Let us presume that the vertical beam of Jesus' cross measured 12 feet, considering the portion that went to the ground, the position of his feet above ground and the top portion of vertical beam where INRI was placed. Now, Jesus was made to carry the entire cross, with the lowest end dragging on the path. In terms of geometry, the ideal length of the cross would be proportionate to his height so as to allow enough space between the shoulder and the vertical and horizontal beams built at 90 degree angle. The cross on which he was crucified appears too long for such a proportion. One is therefore, inclined to conclude that Jesus in fact carried a cross proportional to his height, and was crucified on a different cross vertically much longer. My question therefore is: Was Jesus crucified on the same cross he had carried to Calvary? Inputs from any denomination are welcome.

In [Chapter 2 of Holy Apostle St Paul's 2nd Letter to the Thessalonians, vv. 1-12], the RSVCE Title of which is **The Man of Lawlessness**, i.e., the **Antichrist**, St Paul in v.5 asks his audience to recall: > *5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you this?* It appears that the early Christians right from the **Apostolic Age** were taught about and were familiar with this **Antichrist** character. The Church teaches that the heritage of faith entrusted to the whole of the Church from the Apostles, is contained in the the ***depositum fidei***, i.e., in Sacred Scripture and [Holy] Tradition. > **The heritage of faith entrusted to the whole of the Church** > > **[CCC 84]** The apostles entrusted the "Sacred deposit" of the faith (the ***depositum fidei***), contained in Sacred Scripture and > Tradition, to the whole of the Church. "By adhering to [this heritage] > the entire holy people, united to its pastors, remains always faithful > to the teaching of the apostles, to the brotherhood, to the breaking > of bread and the prayers. So, in maintaining, practicing and > professing the faith that has been handed on, there should be a > remarkable harmony between the bishops and the faithful." Chapter 13 in the Apostle St. John's Apocalypse introduces the Apocalyptic Beasts and their relationship . In the preceding Chapter 12 , the dragon had already been introduced, described, and the readers told what he does: > *the **great dragon** [...], that **ancient serpent**, who is called **the Devil and Satan**, **the deceiver of the whole world*** That leaves us with the two Beasts, the 7-headed First Beast from the Sea, and the Second Beast with with two horns from the earth. Which of these two Beasts, from the Catholic Deposit of Faith, Sacred Scripture and Holy Tradition, is identifiable with the **Antichrist**?

How did the Catholic Church choose which Sacred Tradition is infallible when there are conflicting traditions, such as the Filioque controversy, especially considering that both the Catholic and Orthodox Churches have valid apostolic succession according to the Catholic Church?

> Then after an interval of fourteen years I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, taking Titus along also. It was **because of a revelation** that I went up; and I submitted to them the gospel which I preach among the Gentiles. - **Galatians 2:1-2, NASB** I am wondering ***what*** Paul's revelation was? Do we have any scripture, tradition, or writings from church fathers which might help answer this?

I have counted over 200 prayers by believers (though not being thorough in Psalms) but find none addressed to anyone else in Heaven but God, or exhortations to do so. While support for this is attempted via appeals such as exhortations to pray for each other, and elders and angels offering incense before the climatic judgments on earth, and to tradition, yet I am looking for prayers in the Bible actually addressed, formally or implicitly, to created beings in Heaven, or instructions to do so like as "our Father who art in Heaven."

Lk 22:19 describes the institution of the Sacrament of Holy Eucharist: > And He took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me.”. Evidently, the pieces of bread that Jesus made,weren't uniform in shape or size. Over a period of time, making of hosts for Holy Communion , got standardised . The Catholic Church now uses perfectly round- shaped hosts. As a practice small hosts are cut out of wafer of larger size, entailing rejection of the pieces between circles. Nature gives a lead to minimising waste when a large surface is divided into smaller unit, the best example being of the beehive. It has hexangular columns that promote both strength and economy of space. My question is : Does the Catholic Church have a standard protocol for preparation of hosts ? If it does, did it ever consider redesigning the hosts in production, for the purpose of minimising left-over ? PS: I did post the question on ingredients and shape of hosts at https://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/71046/what-are-the-church-laws-governing-ingredients-and-shapes-of-altar-bread-in-the , but have to been able to get conclusive answers on the shape. Hence this attempt.

How often do you replay your day's mistakes to try see how you failed in comparison to how you did well?

I know that in Eastern Orthodoxy, the Scripture is held to be a part of Sacred Tradition, with equal authority to all the rest of that tradition which was handed down from the Apostles without having been penned by them. Despite not being different in authority, there is plainly some difference between the Scripture and other traditions, as the EO publishes Bibles which include the canonical Scriptures, but not (for example) the decrees of the councils (which are also considered sacred and infallible). Scripture evidently has a unique place, distinct from the councils and the rest of Sacred Tradition, though the mode of difference isn't clear to me. **What is the difference, if it is neither in sacredness nor authority?** Perhaps there is some clear-cut difference in function, which I only perceive vaguely.