Christianity
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Do any Protestant Trinitarian gatherings profess to be in the same condition of unity as the seven churches addressed by John in Revelation?
John the apostle wrote to the early church and expressed the visions which had been given to he, himself, alone, in the revelation of Jesus Christ, given by God. That revelation contained letters to seven churches which were viewed as lampstands with the Son of man seen 'in the midst'. These churche...
John the apostle wrote to the early church and expressed the visions which had been given to he, himself, alone, in the revelation of Jesus Christ, given by God.
That revelation contained letters to seven churches which were viewed as lampstands with the Son of man seen 'in the midst'.
These churches were all subject to the apostle John. *There was unity of teaching.*
These churches were singular in the districts in which they existed. *There was no schism.*
Many denominations today admit of differences within their numbers. Many allow of their participants following different 'ministeries' and 'leaderships'.
If such a state as that seen in Revelation is not real, today, then is it a fact that the Son of man is not 'in the midst' of much of what professes to be the 'church' ?
True, he is in the midst where but two, or three, are gathered in his name. Even if it is but one household within a district. Or like-minded persons meeting in a place where many 'churches' exist but none are truly naming Jesus Christ and properly identifying him.
My question is adressed to Protestant Trinitarians.
Does any Protestant Trinitarian gathering, anywhere, specifically profess to be gathered to the same state and condition as the seven churches addressed by John ?
For if gatherings do not so profess, then by so much they are admitting that the Son of man is not 'in their midst'.
---------------------------------
Edit, for clarity, regarding comment :
There was, indeed, the beginnings of schism at Corinth, as you refer, in the first epistle. This was corrected by apostolic authority and was largely absent by the time the second epistle was completed. Thereafter Paul's writings and the gospel accounts, together with Peter's epistles, Hebrews, James and Jude, were widely available. So by the time John wrote there was a unity *which is very noticeable indeed* in the content of the seven missives to the seven churches. My question is, Who claims to have such a unity, right now, and who, thus, can say that the Son of man is in their midst ?
Nigel J
(28845 rep)
Aug 15, 2025, 09:42 AM
• Last activity: Aug 16, 2025, 01:48 AM
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How do Jehovah Witness account for John giving equal respect to the Father, Holy Spirit, and Jesus in the Rev.1:4&5 introduction to the seven churches
Revelation 1:4&5 >John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before the throne; vs5) And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness.... Obviously there are three personas...
Revelation 1:4&5
>John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before the throne; vs5) And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness....
Obviously there are three personas addressed in this introduction that provide grace and peace to the churches. How do Jehovah Witness explain the seven Spirits (Holy Spirit) as being a non-person if John addressed Him on an equal basis of respect in this introduction?
RHPclass79
(263 rep)
Jul 15, 2025, 07:23 AM
• Last activity: Jul 16, 2025, 01:37 PM
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Has Mark 10:39 been fulfilled? Death of John
Jesus said to them, “You will drink the cup I drink and be baptized with the baptism I am baptized with... I know about James but what is reported in the later writings about the death of John?
Jesus said to them, “You will drink the cup I drink and be baptized with the baptism I am baptized with...
I know about James but what is reported in the later writings about the death of John?
Jeschu
(402 rep)
Jul 10, 2021, 03:06 PM
• Last activity: Apr 30, 2025, 01:57 PM
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Was Jesus' favorite suspected of betrayal?
I have heard somewhere that the apostles thought that John betrayed Jesus. I might have heard this from Father Perry during Bible study. Remember Jesus didn't spell out Judas as the traitor. They thought Judas left to get food for the poor or something like that.
I have heard somewhere that the apostles thought that John betrayed Jesus. I might have heard this from Father Perry during Bible study. Remember Jesus didn't spell out Judas as the traitor. They thought Judas left to get food for the poor or something like that.
Eric Burnwy
(1 rep)
Apr 9, 2025, 06:18 PM
• Last activity: Apr 11, 2025, 11:30 AM
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If John wrote the 4th Gospel, why did he not name himself or his brother?
I've read in Ellicott's commentary that the "other" disciple of John 18:15 might be James, for it stands in contrast to John's supposed self-designation as "the beloved disciple". But that got me wondering: why did John not directly name himself or his brother within the entire gospel? Is there any...
I've read in Ellicott's commentary that the "other" disciple of John 18:15 might be James, for it stands in contrast to John's supposed self-designation as "the beloved disciple". But that got me wondering: why did John not directly name himself or his brother within the entire gospel? Is there any church traditions or research out the that disseminates why John may have not wanted to name himself or James within his own gospel?
user3735278
(151 rep)
May 16, 2020, 10:19 PM
• Last activity: Apr 8, 2025, 05:45 PM
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What were the ages of the Apostles Peter and John when Jesus was crucified?
What were the ages of the Apostles Peter and John when Jesus was crucified? What I’ve heard is Peter was about the same age as Jesus (30-33), while John was an older teenage, approximately 18. This makes sense in the passages: >When Jesus saw his mother and the disciple whom he loved standing nearby...
What were the ages of the Apostles Peter and John when Jesus was crucified?
What I’ve heard is Peter was about the same age as Jesus (30-33), while John was an older teenage, approximately 18. This makes sense in the passages:
>When Jesus saw his mother and the disciple whom he loved standing nearby, he said to his mother, “Woman, behold, your son!” Then he said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother!” And from that hour the disciple took her to his own home. (John 19:26–27, ESV)
A teenager along with women would be less threatened being present at the crucifixion.
>Both of them were running together, but the other disciple outran Peter and reached the tomb first (John 20:4, ESV)
For men who were not athletes, you would expect an 18 year old to outrun a 30 year old.
> Peter turned and saw the disciple whom Jesus loved following them, the one who also had leaned back against him during the supper and had said, “Lord, who is it that is going to betray you?” When Peter saw him, he said to Jesus, “Lord, what about this man?” (John 21:20–21, ESV)
Jesus had told Peter to feed his sheep. Usually younger brothers were given the task of taking care of the literal sheep. Peter had to get used to the idea that shepherds (pastors) were elders.
What other evidence to we have for the ages of Peter and John at the crucifixion.
Perry Webb
(698 rep)
Nov 23, 2020, 11:43 PM
• Last activity: Jan 4, 2025, 11:11 PM
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What did Peter, James and John see on the Mount of Transfiguration?
During a Bible discussion for seekers last week, one of them asked a question that led me to ponder this questions. As I understand it, the body of Moses (not Elijah since he never died) should still have been in the grave at the time of the Transfiguration of Jesus--and would be pretty decomposed a...
During a Bible discussion for seekers last week, one of them asked a question that led me to ponder this questions.
As I understand it, the body of Moses (not Elijah since he never died) should still have been in the grave at the time of the Transfiguration of Jesus--and would be pretty decomposed at that point. However, his spirit (and probably souls) would have been in Paradise at that time--still separated from his body until the resurrection at the last day.
> And after six days Jesus took with him Peter and James, and John his
> brother, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. 2 And he was
> transfigured before them, and his face shone like the sun, and his
> clothes became white as light. 3 And behold, there appeared to them
> Moses and Elijah, talking with him. Matthew 17:1-3 ESV
If that is true, then what exactly did Peter, James and John see on the Mount of Transfiguration? Did they see the spirit of Moses? Can our spirits be seen with physical eyes? Were the disciples perhaps allowed to see spiritual things as Elisha appears to have done in 2 Kings 6?
> When the servant of the man of God rose early in the morning and went
> out, behold, an army with horses and chariots was all around the city.
> And the servant said, “Alas, my master! What shall we do?” He said,
> “Do not be afraid, for those who are with us are more than those who
> are with them.” Then Elisha prayed and said, “O Lord, please open
> his eyes that he may see.” So the Lord opened the eyes of the young
> man, and he saw, and behold, the mountain was full of horses and
> chariots of fire all around Elisha. 2 Kings 6:15-17 ESV
As a side note, the rich man and Lazarus presumably "saw" each other as well.
I'm looking for the Protestant understanding of this.
Narnian
(64586 rep)
Jun 26, 2012, 02:33 PM
• Last activity: Nov 5, 2024, 03:39 PM
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Apostle John lived in Ephesus - what sources claim that?
Which earliest sources does Christianity posses that claim that apostle John spent the last years of his life in Ephesus?
Which earliest sources does Christianity posses that claim that apostle John spent the last years of his life in Ephesus?
brilliant
(10250 rep)
Jun 24, 2013, 01:41 PM
• Last activity: Nov 3, 2024, 07:38 AM
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Were the names Matthew, Mark, Luke and John common in the time of Jesus?
Were the names Matthew, Mark, Luke and John common names in the time of Jesus? If not, what were their real names and why were they changed?
Were the names Matthew, Mark, Luke and John common names in the time of Jesus? If not, what were their real names and why were they changed?
Gary
(101 rep)
Apr 10, 2016, 06:28 PM
• Last activity: Oct 8, 2024, 04:13 AM
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What happened to the apostle John after the Biblical account of his life ends?
There is a legend that says that John traveled to Ephesus where he took care of Virgin Mary and that he lived there until the end of his life. Is this legend true? Are there any historical accounts that support the legend? Are there any other theories about the later life of apostle John?
There is a legend that says that John traveled to Ephesus where he took care of Virgin Mary and that he lived there until the end of his life.
Is this legend true? Are there any historical accounts that support the legend? Are there any other theories about the later life of apostle John?
deps_stats
(1678 rep)
Aug 30, 2011, 03:03 PM
• Last activity: Jun 26, 2024, 05:42 PM
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Why didn't Polycarp mention John in his Epistle?
Polycarp is said to be a student of the Apostle John. Yet he never mentions it in his epistle, nor does he quote the Gospel of John. Why is that?
Polycarp is said to be a student of the Apostle John. Yet he never mentions it in his epistle, nor does he quote the Gospel of John. Why is that?
Bob
(528 rep)
Mar 2, 2022, 02:18 AM
• Last activity: May 13, 2024, 04:32 AM
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What is the basis for the belief that Ignatius of Antioch knew the Apostle John?
What is the basis for the belief that Ignatius of Antioch knew the Apostle John? This seems to be a traditional belief. For example, The Catholic Encyclopedia entry from 1910 [says][1] > "It is also believed, and with great probability, that, with his > friend Polycarp, he was among the auditors of...
What is the basis for the belief that Ignatius of Antioch knew the Apostle John?
This seems to be a traditional belief. For example, The Catholic Encyclopedia entry from 1910 says
> "It is also believed, and with great probability, that, with his
> friend Polycarp, he was among the auditors of the Apostle St. John."
Yet it gives no explicit reason why it is believed with great probability.
A Q & A answerer here says
> "Ignatius of Antioch doesn't mention any personal connection to John
> in his authentic letters. Irenaeus mentions that he met Polycarp, who
> had known John and at least one other apostle, as he refers to
> "apostles" in the plural being known to Polycarp (Against Heresies
> 3.3). Ignatius did write letters to Polycarp and to the church at Smyrna. There are two letters of Ignatius to John preserved in Latin,
> but these are universally recognized as forgeries dated to the middle
> ages. **There's no reliable evidence to connect Ignatius directly with
> any of the apostles. So, as you say, this is likely a case of
> "tradition based on forgery."**"
Is this correct - is the idea that Ignatius of Antioch knew the Apostle John based solely on forged letters?
Only True God
(6934 rep)
Jun 30, 2021, 12:15 AM
• Last activity: Apr 22, 2024, 03:30 PM
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Why is wine associated with St. John the Apostle?
In the [Rituale Romanum][1] of the Catholic Church one can find a [blessing for wine][2] which is reserved for the Feast of St. John the Apostle (December 27). Why does the Catholic Church associate this tradition with St John? Occasionally artists show a snake or a dragon coming out of a chalice wi...
In the Rituale Romanum of the Catholic Church one can find a blessing for wine which is reserved for the Feast of St. John the Apostle (December 27).
Why does the Catholic Church associate this tradition with St John?
Occasionally artists show a snake or a dragon coming out of a chalice with St. John the Apostle.
El Greco: St. John the Evangelist, 1595-1604

Ken Graham
(81444 rep)
Apr 28, 2016, 12:29 PM
• Last activity: Dec 27, 2023, 11:52 PM
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Why some believe that Apocalypse will be triggered by The Temple of Solomon?
Maybe this question is better suited for Biblical Hermeneutics, but it is on-topic here too. We know that King Solomon built a temple in Jerusalem for God, then the Assyrians or Babylonians (I forget which) destroyed the temple and scattered the Israelites to foreign lands. Eventually they were sent...
Maybe this question is better suited for Biblical Hermeneutics, but it is on-topic here too.
We know that King Solomon built a temple in Jerusalem for God, then the Assyrians or Babylonians (I forget which) destroyed the temple and scattered the Israelites to foreign lands. Eventually they were sent home by the King of Persia and they rebuilt the temple.
Then the Romans came and destroyed the temple shortly after Jesus's life and Resurrection and the Jews were once again scattered to foreign lands. In the 20th century after WW2 the Israelites had an initiative to return to "The Promised Land" — many of them have, where they have been in regular conflict with the Arabs.
My question is why do some Christians believe that when the Jews will rebuild the Temple of Solomon for the third time, and that this will trigger the Apocalypse and the Second Coming of Christ. Does this have a biblical basis. Is this mentioned in the apostle John's Revelation?
MikeyJY
(393 rep)
Oct 11, 2023, 09:57 AM
• Last activity: Oct 11, 2023, 03:11 PM
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Is there a particular Catholic blessing for wine (outside of consecration)?
Listening to Trending with Timmerie podcast on Christmas traditions, the guest was talking about "Drinking the Love of St. John" which seems like a pretty fantastic idea. But it seems like it a particular blessing might be more appropriate especially for a priest who has never heard of the tradition...
Listening to Trending with Timmerie podcast on Christmas traditions, the guest was talking about "Drinking the Love of St. John" which seems like a pretty fantastic idea. But it seems like it a particular blessing might be more appropriate especially for a priest who has never heard of the tradition.
So is there a particular blessing I can give to a priest to use for a blessing on St. John's feast day or do we just rely on priests to come up with it?
Peter Turner
(34456 rep)
Dec 20, 2022, 02:59 PM
• Last activity: Dec 20, 2022, 11:53 PM
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Why has St. John or the three Nephites not come out in support of the LDS Church?
From the official [LDS website](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/new-era/2017/11/to-the-point/are-john-the-beloved-and-the-three-nephites-actually-still-on-the-earth-if-so-what-are-they-doing?lang=eng): > Yes, the Savior granted to John the Beloved and the Three Nephites their desire to tar...
From the official [LDS website](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/new-era/2017/11/to-the-point/are-john-the-beloved-and-the-three-nephites-actually-still-on-the-earth-if-so-what-are-they-doing?lang=eng) :
> Yes, the Savior granted to John the Beloved and the Three Nephites their desire to tarry on the earth. What they’re doing is bringing souls unto the Lord until He comes again (see D&C 7:2; 3 Nephi 28:9).
Now I must say, this is the most curious doctrine. I have never heard of it before, and it seems quite absurd. So I have a question. If St. John along with the three Nephites believe fully in the truth of the LDS faith, why have none of them come out in support of the LDS church? Surely this would be undeniable proof of the truth of the LDS faith?
Luke Hill
(5538 rep)
Jun 1, 2022, 02:04 AM
• Last activity: Jun 1, 2022, 04:22 AM
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Did John the Evangelist refer to himself as `the disciple whom Jesus loved 'in retrospect?
We see John the Evangelist referring to himself as `the disciple whom Jesus loved' , four times in the Gospel (Vs 13:23, 19:26, 21:7 and 21:20), the first reference being to the conversation at Last Supper : > One of them, the disciple whom Jesus loved, was reclining next to him. The first time we s...
We see John the Evangelist referring to himself as `the disciple whom Jesus loved' , four times in the Gospel (Vs 13:23, 19:26, 21:7 and 21:20), the first reference being to the conversation at Last Supper :
> One of them, the disciple whom Jesus loved, was reclining next to him.
The first time we see Jesus giving a special consideration to John is when the Lord entrusts the care of his mother to John ( 19:26) . In the Gospel accounts preceding that incident, we do not see any special consideration given by Jesus to John. On the contrary, Jesus disappoints John and James who come to him demanding 'VIP seats' in glory (Mk 10: 35-40) One is, therefore, inclined to believe that John, at the time of writing the Gospel, thought deeply about the event at the foot of the Cross,and considered himself to have been 'the special disciple' right from the beginning. In other words, John was referring to himself as 'the disciple whom Jesus loved' in retrospect. My question therefore, is: According to Catholic scholars, did John the Evangelist refer to himself as 'the disciple whom Jesus loved' in retrospect?
Kadalikatt Joseph Sibichan
(13704 rep)
Apr 28, 2022, 05:10 AM
• Last activity: Apr 28, 2022, 05:27 AM
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Is there a written tradition that would explain why John the Evangelist is often depicted in art as effeminate?
John the Evangelist is often depicted in art as effeminate (e.g. long hair, clean shaven, gentle face), as illustrated below. This is especially apparent when compared with other males in the same painting (e.g. Da Vinci's). Obviously the artists didn't know what he actually looked like, but is ther...
John the Evangelist is often depicted in art as effeminate (e.g. long hair, clean shaven, gentle face), as illustrated below.
This is especially apparent when compared with other males in the same painting (e.g. Da Vinci's).
Obviously the artists didn't know what he actually looked like, but is there a written tradition that would explain this common depiction.
[Da Vinci — Close-up from *The Last Supper*, circa 1497](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Supper_(Leonardo)#/media/File:%C3%9Altima_Cena_-_Da_Vinci_5.jpg)
[Piero di Cosimo (Piero di Lorenzo) — *St. John the Evangelist*, circa 1500](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_the_Evangelist#/media/File:Piero_di_Cosimo_(Piero_di_Lorenzo)_-_St._John_the_Evangelist,_c._1500.jpg)


Ray Butterworth
(11838 rep)
Apr 13, 2022, 07:02 PM
• Last activity: Apr 14, 2022, 12:16 PM
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John the Disciple and John the Elder
Eusebius of Cesarea writes (Church History, Book 3, Chapter 39) > In these words, it is noteworthy that Papias lists the name John > twice. The first time he includes John with Peter, James, Matthew and > the other apostles; he obviously means the evangelist. The second > time, in a new sentence, he...
Eusebius of Cesarea writes (Church History, Book 3, Chapter 39)
> In these words, it is noteworthy that Papias lists the name John
> twice. The first time he includes John with Peter, James, Matthew and
> the other apostles; he obviously means the evangelist. The second
> time, in a new sentence, he includes John in another category, which
> is different from that of the apostles; he places Aristion before him
> and expressly calls him a presbyter. This proves the report true that
> in Asia two disciples had the same name, and that in Ephesus two tombs
> were erected, each of which still bears the name John. This must be
> taken into account. For it is probable that, if one does not want to
> think of the first John, the second saw the revelation that went under
> the name of John. John's name, the second has seen the revelation that
> goes under John's name. Papias, whom we have just quoted, confesses,
> received the teachings of the apostles from their disciples, and heard
> Aristion and the presbyter John personally.
The thesis has been disputed; see SE anwer to https://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/17428/who-wrote-the-book-of-revelation
My question: Are there any independent sources available that support Eusebius thesis that John the Disciple and John the Elder were two different persons?
I read in aforementioned article: "But Zahn and most Catholic writers agree that Dionysius was mistaken about the tomb". I could not identify the citation; in the writings of Dionysius I have only found passages about the tomb of Jesus. Have the two tombs in Ephesos been mentioned or even been identified?
SDG
(281 rep)
Nov 13, 2021, 11:28 PM
• Last activity: Nov 14, 2021, 01:58 AM
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Does God have a form as seen by John the Apostle?
> [ Revelation 4][1] > > 2 At once I was in the Spirit, and there before me was a **throne** in > heaven with someone **sitting** on it. 3 And the one who sat there had the > **appearance** of jasper and ruby. A rainbow that shone like an emerald > encircled the throne. > > [Revelation 5][2] > > 1 T...
> Revelation 4
>
> 2 At once I was in the Spirit, and there before me was a **throne** in
> heaven with someone **sitting** on it. 3 And the one who sat there had the
> **appearance** of jasper and ruby. A rainbow that shone like an emerald
> encircled the throne.
>
> Revelation 5
>
> 1 Then I saw in the **right hand** of him who sat on the throne a scroll
> with writing on both sides and sealed with seven seals.
> 6 Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing at the
> center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the
> elders. **The Lamb** had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven
> spirits of God sent out into all the earth. 7 He **went and took the
> scroll from the right hand of him who sat on the throne**.
Apostle John saw God in Heaven. God was sitting on a throne, had a glorious appearance and His right hand was holding a scroll. The Lamb, who was Jesus Christ, came and took the scroll from the right hand of God.
From this vision, can we conclude that God has a form like us?
Does God have a head, body, hands and legs so that God could sit down on a throne like us?
Mawia
(16198 rep)
Dec 20, 2013, 08:24 AM
• Last activity: Nov 9, 2021, 10:31 PM
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