I am planning on leading a Bible Study and want to try and provide some commentary by people such as Augustine, St John Chrysostom, etc. I've tried looking around and found it very difficult to find anything and it seems a lot of the references are implicit rather than explicit from my searching. I found Augustine's "On Grace and Free Will" which has some good references but I'd like to find more if possible.

Before beginning my question, I'd like to clarify what I mean by 'Apostolic Christian'. By this, I mean anyone in the Assyrian, Oriental Orthodox, Eastern Orthodox, or Roman Catholic Communions. The book of Sirach is a deuterocanonical book rejected by most Protestants as Scripture, but accepted as Scripture by most everyone else. It has several verses that are extremely problematic *prima facie* relating to women; all quotations are from the NSRV-CI. > For from garments comes the moth,\ > and from a woman comes woman’s wickedness.\ > Better is the wickedness of a man than a woman who does good;\ > it is woman who brings shame and disgrace.\ > -Sirach 42:13-14 > From a woman sin had its beginning,\ > and because of her we all die....\ > If she [that is, your wife] does not go as you direct,\ > separate her from yourself.\ > -Sirach 25:24,26 > It is a disgrace to be the father of an undisciplined son,\ and the birth of a daughter is a loss.\ -Sirach 22:3 > He who acquires a wife gets his best possession,\ a helper fit for him and a pillar of support.\ Sirach 36:29 Unfortunately, I could quote many more. Jesus ben Sirach here says that women's goodness is worse than man's wickedness; that women were the originators of sin; that if wives do not listen to you, they should be abandoned; that wives are possessions; and that, of course, the birth of a daughter is a loss. When discussing a headstrong daughter, he is incredibly obscene: > As a thirsty traveler opens his mouth\ and drinks from any water near him,\ so she will sit in front of every tent peg\ and open her quiver to the arrow.\ -Sirach 26:15 How do folks who accept this book as inspired Scripture interpret these in light of the Gospel? Patristic citations are both welcome and appreciated.

>**Proverbs 8:22 (KJV)** The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. Even if you take the stance that Proverbs 8:22 means God *possessed* me at the beginning (i.e. as opposed to God *created* me at the beginning), what does one do with, for example, Sirach 1:4, which says: >**Sirach 1:4 (KJV)** Wisdom hath been created before all things, and the understanding of prudence from everlasting. I'd like to believe that Wisdom is Jesus; it makes a lot of sense to me. But it's very hard for me to believe Jesus was a created being, and just as hard to believe there are two Wisdoms. Question -- According to Christians who believe a) Christ was **not created** and b) is the Wisdom spoken of in the Wisdom books of the Old Testament, why is this Wisdom described in the Old Testament as having been **created** by God?

Which of the following wisdom books, - Proverbs - Ecclesiastes - Wisdom - Ecclesiasticus (Sirach), are advice addressed by a father to his son? Yes, Job, the Psalms, and Solomon's Canticle of Canticles (Song of Solomon) are wisdom literature, too, but they're clearly not father-son advice.

My limited research on the topic suggests the only reason [Sirach](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sirach) (or Ecclesiasticus or Ben Sira, etc.) was put in the Apocrypha was because the Jewish canon excluded it. As for why the Jewish canon did not include it, I couldn't find any reasoning that involved the content of the book. Is there something theologically problematic in Sirach that prevents it from being classified as Scripture (from a Protestant view)?

"Better is the wickedness of a man than a woman who does good; and it is a woman who brings shame and disgrace." - Sirach (or Ecclesiasticus) 42:14, RSV.

**Sirach 3:12-14** tells us: > 12 My child, support your father in his old age, do not grieve him > during his life. > > 13 Even if his mind should fail, show him sympathy, do not despise him > in your health and strength; > > 14 for kindness to a father will not be forgotten but will serve as > reparation for your sins. From a Protestant perspective (Protestants who hold to the Apostle's Creed, for instance), verse 14 goes against everything in scripture because it teaches that you can do a good deed and it will take care of your sins. But only God can forgive sins. But Sirach is part of the Catholic canon as inspired by God. Do Catholics believe that a Catholic in good standing can do good to one's father as noted in Sirach and have his sins forgiven, or have I misunderstood the "reparation" part of this verse?