>#### Gift of perseverance > >The Gift of perseverance is the doctrine of Augustine of Hippo that persevering in the faith is a gift given by God, but a person can never know if they have the gift. According to Augustine, without having the gift of perseverance a person is damned, even if he seems to have been elected by grace. Augustine himself also believed that Cyprian held a similar view about perseverance being a work of God, and thus foreshadowing the Augustinian view. **Some Calvinists argue that the Augustinian view foreshadows the Calvinist doctrine of perseverance of the saints**. > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gift_of_perseverance > [Matthew 13:20-21 NASB] 20 The one sown with seed on the rocky places, this is the one who hears the word **and immediately receives it with joy**; 21 **yet he has no firm root in himself, but is only temporary**, and when affliction or persecution occurs because of the word, **immediately he falls away**. > [Luke 8:13 NASB] Those on the rocky soil are the ones who, when they hear, **receive the word with joy**; **and yet these do not have a firm root**; **they believe for a while**, **and in a time of temptation they fall away**. How do advocates of the doctrine of *eternal security*, also known as *once saved, always saved* or *the perseverance of the saints*, explain God’s apparent withdrawal of the gift of perseverance from the individual described in Matthew 13:20-21 and Luke 8:13? In these passages, it seems that God allows a person to be exposed to the gospel, to experience genuine initial joy and even a measure of faith, yet for some reason does not grant them the gift of perseverance (otherwise they would have persevered). In other words, God is permitting this "sheep" to fall away from His hand, or never put this "sheep" in His hand in the first place, but why? Why is God not giving the gift of perseverance to the individual in Matthew 13:20-21 and Luke 8:13?

I came across this article on Augustine: [Why Do We And St. Augustine Believe “Once Saved Always Saved”?](https://koinos.church/why-do-we-and-st-augustine-believe-once-saved-always-saved/) . The article explains: >Augustine saw in scripture that the fall of Adam resulted in all humans receiving a nature totally depraved so that no one is capable of obedience without God’s grace providing the ability. This is why he uttered his famous prayer, “Lord command what you will and grant what you command.” This view of man’s depravity and God’s grace caused him to reject the idea that believers must maintain their perseverance by their own righteousness. All God’s work of salvation in man is an act of His grace. None of it could be accomplished by the mere will of man, not the beginning steps of repentance and not the perseverance in faith to the end. All of salvation is due to God’s grace alone. This led him to make these affirmations on “once saved always saved,” > >>I assert, therefore, that the perseverance by which we peresevere in Christ even to the end is the gift of God. >> >>It is shown with sufficient clearness that the grace of God, which both begins a man’s faith and which enables it to persevere unto the end, is not given according to our merits, but is given according to His own most secret and at the same time most righteous, wise, and beneficent will; since those whom He predestinated, them He also called. >> >>When the gift of God is granted to them…none of the saints fails to keep his perseverance in holiness even to the end. (In De Perseverantiae). However, in [this debate](https://youtu.be/72TRODe8BdA?t=1411) , Trent Horn quoted a seemingly different passage from Augustine’s [*Treatise on Rebuke and Grace*](https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/1513.htm) : > If, however, **being already regenerate and justified**, he relapses of his own will into an evil life, assuredly he cannot say, I have not received, **because of his own free choice to evil he has lost the grace of God**, that he had received. I would like input from someone well-versed in Augustine’s writings: did Augustine’s views ultimately align with, or contradict, the doctrine of *Eternal Security*? Did Augustine actually believe in the doctrine of “once saved, always saved”?

In contrast to the doctrine of Eternal Security, many denominations believe that a person can, in fact, lose his or her salvation. So, what is the biblical basis or biblical argument for the doctrine of the Loss of Salvation? Put another way, what is the biblical argument against Eternal Security?

John 6:37-44 (ESV) > 37 **All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out**. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, **that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day**. 40 For this is the will of my Father, **that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day**.” > > 41 So the Jews grumbled about him, because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.” 42 They said, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How does he now say, ‘I have come down from heaven’?” 43 Jesus answered them, “Do not grumble among yourselves. 44 **No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day**. John 10:11-18 (ESV) > 11 **I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep**. 12 He who is a hired hand and not a shepherd, who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees, and the wolf snatches them and scatters them. 13 He flees because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep. 14 **I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me**, 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; **and I lay down my life for the sheep**. 16 And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd. 17 For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again. 18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father.” John 10:25-30 (ESV) > 25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. 27 **My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me**. 28 **I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand**. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, **and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand**. 30 I and the Father are one.” How do those who believe that salvation can be lost make sense of these passages? How can salvation be lost if the good shepherd knows his sheep, the sheep know him, and no one is able to snatch them out of his hand?

Revelation 3:14-22 (ESV): > 14 “And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: ‘The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God's creation. > > 15 “‘I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! 16 **So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth**. 17 For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing, not realizing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked. 18 I counsel you to buy from me gold refined by fire, so that you may be rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself and the shame of your nakedness may not be seen, and salve to anoint your eyes, so that you may see. 19 **Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline, so be zealous and repent**. 20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me. 21 **The one who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I also conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne**. 22 **He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches**.’” You cannot spit out of your mouth something that is not inside your body in the first place. But if Jesus will spit lukewarm believers out of His mouth, it follows that those lukewarm believers were part of Jesus's body in the first place. And if someone was part of Jesus's body in the first place, it follows that they were saved: > 12 **For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ**. 13 **For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body**—Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit. (1 Corinthians 12:12-13 ESV) > 27 **Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it**. (1 Corinthians 12:27 ESV) Similar ideas are expressed by John 15: > “I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser. 2 **Every branch in me that does not bear fruit he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes**, that it may bear more fruit. 3 Already you are clean because of the word that I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in me, and I in you. **As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me**. 5 **I am the vine; you are the branches**. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. 6 **If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned**. 7 If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8 By this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit and so prove to be my disciples. 9 As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Abide in my love. 10 If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love. 11 These things I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be full. (John 15:1-11 ESV) ______ ### The argument in deductive form **P1**: Jesus will spit lukewarm individuals out of his mouth (from Revelation 3:16) **P2**: If Jesus spits something out of his mouth, that something must have been part of Jesus's body in the first place (from common sense) **C1**: Lukewarm individuals were part of Jesus's body in the first place (from P1 & P2) **P3**: A person is saved if and only if they are part of Jesus's body (from 1 Corinthians 12, John 15:1-11) **C2**: Lukewarm individuals were saved (from C1 & P3) **P4**: If Jesus spits a lukewarm individual out of his mouth, they are no longer part of Jesus's body (from common sense) **C3**: Lukewarm individuals will no longer be part of Jesus's body (from P1 & P4) **C4**: Lukewarm individuals will no longer be saved (from C3 & P3) **C5**: Lukewarm individuals will lose their salvation (from C2 & C4) **P5**: If salvation can be lost, then Eternal Security is false (from the definition of eternal security ([link](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_security)) and the law of excluded middle ([link](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_excluded_middle))) **C6**: Eternal Security is false (from C5 & P5) ____ **Question** How do those who believe that salvation cannot be lost rebut the deductive argument above? ____ **Related BHSE questions** - [Is Revelation 3:16 a warning about the possibility of losing one's salvation?](https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/q/76215/38524) - [What does Jesus mean by "hot", "cold" and "lukewarm" in Revelation 3:16?](https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/q/76203/38524) - [Are John 15:1-11 and Revelation 3:14-22 referring to the same group of people?](https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/q/76198/38524)

Upon questioning, eternal security advocates (those who say a Christian cannot lose their salvation), will point to a variety of Bible verses to support their position. So, this begs the question of what Bible verses support ones ability to lose their salvation?

According to Wikipedia, the doctrine of [Perseverance of the saints](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perseverance_of_the_saints) is: > [...] a Christian teaching that asserts that **once a person is truly "born of God" or "regenerated" by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, they will continue doing good works and believing in God until the end of their life**. On the other hand, the doctrine of [Eternal Security](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_security) is defined as follows: > Eternal security, also known as "once saved, always saved", is the belief that **from the moment anyone becomes a Christian, they will be saved from hell, and will not lose salvation**. **Once a person is truly "born of God" or "regenerated" by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit**, nothing in heaven or earth "shall be able to separate (them) from the love of God" (Romans 8:39) and thus **nothing can reverse the condition of having become a Christian**. So it appears that *Perseverance of the saints* is about unshakable **sanctification** after true conversion, whereas *Eternal Security* is about unshakable **salvation** after true conversion. So there appears to be a very subtle distinction between the two doctrines. **Question**: are there any denominations that believe in one doctrine while denying the other? Is it even possible to endorse one doctrine without endorsing the other?