In the Dīgha Nikāya 15 (DN 15), the Mahānidāna Sutta, the Buddha outlines a a complex stratification of "seven stations of consciousness" and "two dimensions" > “Ānanda, there are these seven stations of consciousness and two > dimensions. Which seven? > > “There are **beings with multiplicity of body and multiplicity of > perception,4 such as human beings, some devas, and some beings in the > lower realms. This is the first station of consciousness.** > > “There are **beings with multiplicity of body and singularity of > perception, such as the Devas of Brahmā’s Retinue generated by the > first (jhāna) and (some) beings in the four realms of deprivation.5 > This is the second station of consciousness.** > > “There are **beings with singularity of body and multiplicity of > perception, such as the Radiant Devas. This is the third station of > consciousness.** > > “There are **beings with singularity of body and singularity of > perception, such as the Beautiful Black Devas. This is the fourth > station of consciousness.** > > “There are **beings who, with the complete transcending of perceptions > of (physical) form, with the disappearance of perceptions of > resistance, and not heeding perceptions of multiplicity, (perceiving,) > ‘Infinite space,’ arrive at the dimension of the infinitude of space. > This is the fifth station of consciousness.** > > “There are **beings who, with the complete transcending of the dimension > of the infinitude of space, (perceiving,) ‘Infinite consciousness,’ > arrive at the dimension of the infinitude of consciousness.** **This is > the sixth station of consciousness.** > > “There are beings who, **with the complete transcending of the dimension > of the infinitude of consciousness, (perceiving,) ‘There is nothing,’ > arrive at the dimension of nothingness. This is the seventh station of > consciousness.** > > **“The dimension of non-percipient beings and, second, the dimension of > neither perception nor non-perception. [These are the two dimensions.]** ~ DN 15 Is the Buddha here describing subjective, internal states of consciousness that can be directly known in meditation, or externally existing cosmological realms that other beings inhabit? This ambiguity is especially pronounced in the case of the “dimension of infinite consciousness.” Is this to be understood as a temporary mental perception - an internal expansion of awareness beyond form - or does it point to a more ontological reality in which consciousness itself is experienced as boundless? If so, what does this imply about the nature of consciousness: is it something objectively infinite by nature, or is any perception of “infinite consciousness” merely a constructed meditative perception, still within the conditioned world, and thus ultimately impermanent?

I have been a Vipassana meditator since 2001 and had a very strong practice and very good concentration. Last 2-3 years I started feeling a physical violation of space and then hearing voices. What interacts with me is some kind of demon or demons that have started harming with negative gross vibrations of all kinds and use very harmful language. They also harm physically and hurt around the spine and different organs of the body and the nervous system- to get your energy -some kind of energy vampires. They harm continuously and never stop. It is impossible to meditate or do anything else. They seem to know how to connect to human mind and body and somehow gain control the nervous system. I asked a lot of people for help including meditators even teachers but so far havnt found anyone who knows about this or wants to help. I don’t even know where to get the help. No drugs or medicines have helped so far, even tried to get some mantra tantra help. I have also read and listened to Ratana and Atanatiya sutta. Written to monasteries..I cannot give metta or practice Vipassana at all because I am constantly under attack. I am not delusional and these are not illusions. Really looking for some help or inputs that refer to any success stories through monks or healers or Vipassana teachers. Someone who really knows about this well.

How common is it for lay people and for monks both to attain higher jhanas like sixth, seventh and the eighth ? How easy/hard it is? Have you entered any of the Jhana states yourself? If yes, what was your method?

From Thanissaro Bhikkhu (embedded time in the link) What I am specifically curious about is about the stopping of breathing in 4th jhana that he explains. For me personally, I have been able to experience weak rapture on command, what I know as a jhanic factor but I didn't even think i had experienced even the 1st Jhana. I have had some powerful absorption meditations before where I have stopped breathing, and like he said as the end of the question (it's a Q&A section) where people recognize they stopped breathing and kind of "ahhh" then jump out of it. So is that it, is that actually 4th jhana?, is the Bhikkhu incorrect?, is my experience incorrect (you cannot answer that of course) The way I originally learned the Jhanas were through Mahamudra tantra, where it is explained "the mediator stops breathing resembling a dead person" but I always assumed these meditations where I lost my ability to breathe and subsequently jump out of it were nowhere near even the first jhana, let alone the the stopping breathing like what was explained in Mahamudra teachings.I just thought it was just me having some sort of meditation issue, which of course are myriad and varied for all.

Trying to understand what mental level and constitution the meditator needs to be to make actual progress towards the higher levels of concentration meditations, as well as the external conditions needed. Obviously a person cannot realistically gain traction while living a mundane householder life. So any personal advice, or sources or books/teachings regarding the matter would be appreciated. I did find a quote here that someone mentioned it could take 3-8 years of serious practice to gain any real attainments. This is obviously a "how long is a piece of string" scenario though the ability to practice with that much daily dedication and the requisite location is what I am asking. What persons constitution and what location is required for serious practice. Is a genuine teacher who can help with the immediate issues/pitfalls needed? Does one have to be in complete solitude etc? I do remember reading that Buddha gave 10 locations that would need to be avoided in attaining concentration. Which generally meant places where other people congregate.

Hello Beautiful People, I have a quick question. After years of meditating with a mixture of Mahasi and Goenka style, I would like to ask the following. Very often when I sit to mediate, it is a matter of seconds to experience a subtle sense of pleasure and/or spaciousness. But more interestingly, is that after meditating a bit more there comes a feeling that my eyes want to move upwards, almost like if they want to see behind my head/brain. The first times this eye movement happened, years ago, there was fear in me because this was unusual and unexpected - it was even a bit painful. But after letting this movement happen I realized that the traditional lights, pleasure, and spaciousness became more present. Sometimes this leads to a very focalized pleasure spot at the top of my head and sometimes to the feeling that from that spot a very strong and interesting sense of pleasure would come from it (like if there is a cascade of pleasure emanating from the top of my head). The eye movement I am describing is not like REM. It is rather slow and it is directed upwards. So, I guess my question is: what is this eye movement thing? Is it anywhere described? Is it a Jhana thing? a symptom of any stage of the path? Thanks!

I have a friend who is a Christian. It is a truism that most people can't tolerate sitting and doing nothing because of catastrophic dukkha. Most people, including people I know, have to DO something all the time. But my old friend would spend hours sitting on his porch, a smile on his face, by himself, just enjoying the present moment. Is this a form of jhana? Is it possible that there are many run of the mill, non-buddhist people who actually understand and practice a kind of jhana unintentionally?

What are your thoughts about this following passage: > “And what is the path that leads to the unconditioned? Immersion with > placing the mind and keeping it connected. Immersion without placing > the mind, but just keeping it connected. Immersion without placing the > mind or keeping it connected. …” -Savitakkasavicārasutta

I have a two-part question. One is related to personal practice and the other is scriptural or theoretical. I'll lay down a concise personal background for the sake of clarity. I am an irregular practitioner of Vipassana. I have finished 3 Vipassana retreats (Goenka tradition). I try to meditate for 2 hours a day most days. I also attempt walking and sleeping meditation as much as I can at times when I'm not formally meditating. **Question 1** It had been difficult for me to establish equanimity in body scanning since i was getting distracted too often. So I allowed myself to indulge in just doing anapana sati (samatha meditation). While I thought I was just doing anapana sati, I probably unconsciously was doing insight meditation too by using the nostrils as the object (I'm not sure if that's what it is, please correct me if I'm wrong). I would try to attain equanimity towards the sensations within my nostrils. My breath would increase pace when i would fail to get the sensation. I would then try to slow it down to natural pace which is super subtle, by attempting to be equanimous about the CURRENT sensations and eliminating all cravings. When i would succeed, the breathing would become too subtle, too short, too sharp and too fast to notice and yet I'd be effortlessly noticing it without affecting the pace of the breath. At this point I would experience the below mentioned state. I'm not sure if this state is the first jhana or not but it's the most significant experience I've had as of yet while formally meditating. It has following characteristics: 1. a feeling that breathing (the area of nostrils) is the handle through which the instrument of my whole body is being held with 2. a uniform sense of numbness throughout the body 3. a steady awareness of the non-uniform subtle sensations on the body yet simultaneously uniform and unbroken sense of equanimity towards all of the sensations 4. the feeling of "MY body" being retracted/sinking within the objective body as if the ME is far away from the surface of the body 5. a mild pleasure arising from the realization of the momentary freedom from surface sensations Note: I've experienced this state multiple times but usually when it occurs, i get taken by surprise and either get too excited about it or anxious about the possibility of it ending, in both cases it actually does end up terminating the state. **Q: Is this any of the rupa jhanas or am I just experiencing normal precursor stages before entering the first jhana?** **Question 2** I've been obsessively delving into Buddhist literature through various PDFs, forums such as this and meditation related subreddits as of late. I haven't formally studied the canon. So please forgive my ignorance. I read somewhere (I don't recall where) that if one progresses through the arupa Jhanas (Samadhi) without making any progress in the insight (Panna) then after death, the citta is reborn in the formless realm (arupa loka) and has to stay there for a long, long time until the pleasant sankharas run out after which one returns to the material realm whence one can continue the journey towards liberation through insight practice.   **Q: is it true that too much progress in Samadhi and little progress in Panna can lead to rebirth in arupa/deva/brahma loka which would actually delay the progress towards liberation? if it's true, then how farther would it be safe to progress in jhanas to secure rebirth in human realm so that one can keep working towards nibbana?**   Thank you for your patience! Much metta!

Does the alayavijnana exist in the formless realms? --------------------------------------------------- Presuably, if we are reborn there. But there is no matter in the formless realms, so my crazy hypothesis for how my mental stream can reoccur outside my body (action at a distance, of gravity) seems to be disproven if the title question is yes (the alayavijnana does not necessarily include form and mass undergoing the gravitational constant). For what it's worth, I would think that supposing there is no rebirth without physical mass, then that would suffice to demonstrate that the strangeness of action at a distance (seemingly involved in post-mortem rebirth) ***itself does not preclude* the possibility of rebirth**, though of course if the identity of mind with body means this this brain is necessary for my mind, then - my mind cannot live without this living brain Currently, I do not see any other motivation for the claim that death is the end of the citta-santana, but I welcome any correction to that.

Is it possible to attain the first jhana, then remain in first jhana, while walking, talking, eating and performing other daily activities? Or does one remain in first jhana only while in sitting meditation, then he has to leave the jhana and meditation, before he is able to perform daily activities such as walking, talking and eating?

Why is the first *jhana* omitted from MN 125 ? How is this omission related to the context of that sutta? > As the placing of the mind and keeping it connected are stilled, they enter and remain in the second absorption … > *So vitakkavicārānaṁ vūpasamā ajjhattaṁ sampasādanaṁ cetaso ekodibhāvaṁ avitakkaṁ avicāraṁ samādhijaṁ pītisukhaṁ dutiyaṁ jhānaṁ …* > > third absorption … > *tatiyaṁ jhānaṁ …* > > fourth absorption. > *catutthaṁ jhānaṁ upasampajja viharati.* > MN 125

In various suttas like SN 35.204 and AN 4.170 , we find that both tranquility (*samatha*) and insight (*vipassana*) must be developed in most cases, in order to make progress on the path towards complete liberation. > The swift pair of messengers stands for tranquility (*samatha*) and insight (*vipassana*) > SN 35.204 To me, it appears that *jhana* is needed to overcome the five hindrances ("quite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unskillful qualities, they enter and remain in the first absorption" - DN 10 ), without which, insight is not easily achievable. On the other hand, the *vipassana* contemplations of the Satipatthana Sutta (MN 10) appear to be using *vitakka* and *vicara*. Is this right? We also read: > Sound is a thorn to the first absorption. Placing the mind and keeping > it connected are a thorn to the second absorption. Rapture is a thorn > to the third absorption. Breathing is a thorn to the fourth > absorption. > AN 10.72 So, it sounds to me like, just the first *jhana* is sufficient for *vipassana*, since *vitakka* and *vicara* are thorns to the second *jhana*. So, putting these together, the *vipassana* contemplations of MN 10 is best practised after entering and remaining in the first *jhana*. Is this right?

I have issues with the exact meaning of vitakka/vicara. I'm familiar with the stock translation "initial and sustained application of attention" and the images of vitakka and vicara being like a gong with initial strike vs. resounding and the bee visiting a flower and than buzzing around. My meditation teacher mentioned that "vitakka and vicara have an aspect of 'fruit'". That makes a lot of sense to me, because otherwise they wouldn't be listed as jhana factors. So there have to be multiple layers of vitakka and vicara, probably depending on the level of concentration? I didn't find any good references for it, can you help me? In terms of meditation experience, I always assumed that there is just one v/v. How would you describe the difference between normal consciousness v/v and the improved version of v/v in access concentration or 1st jhana?

I've been attempting to follow Leigh Brasington's instructions about entering jhana. However, I never seem to be able to find a pleasant sensation. I mean I feel just kind of warm and comfortable in places and I feel occasional subtle vibration or tingle but not enough to maintain focus on. Anyone have any advice about this? And before you start to preach about how trying to enter jhanas will ensure you don't, I already know that. I'm just more looking for advise about why I can't seem to notice sensations much. Thanks

Coming from [here, analysis of AN 8.30](https://notesonthedhamma.blogspot.com/2021/10/an-830-maybe-try-having-faith-in-buddha.html) . > Good, Anuruddha, very good. It’s good that you think these thoughts of a great person: Does good householder think that certain (all) people are capable to think such thoughts? So how then could certain delight in such thoughts? What then would one, seeing this, start to think for himself instead to try to make a dead dog walk? In what would he delight and sacrifices into himself? What does good householder here desire to think? Are thought of a great man only think-able for great or by everyone? What happens if a ordinary starts to give them public thoughts? And in the case thinking not possible for everybody here and now, what would be the prerequisite to get the point? What's the matter with proper attention and good association here? Could that be a way out?

Stabilizing the counterpart sign (nimitta) isn't easy. Is there a 'technique' that leads to stabilize it? I.c. is there a 'technique' to develop/cultivate intensively the absorption factors (jhanangas)? With 'stabilizing' I mean: making the nimitta sharp, focused, completely free from tension (of the panca nivarana), so that absorption (1st jhana) can be attained.

I have been meditating for a while now and i found my way to get into jhana, well i haven't enter jhana but it was more me not fully in knowing how but now i think i understand. But one thing i keep getting stuck on is the signs. I haven't to my knowledge experienced a nimitta. Maybe cause i use visualization to enter the jhanas From what i gathered first you have initial & sustain thought. Then as time goes on you developed joy. Which brings this pleasant feeling. Then you move your attention from that to the pleasant feeling to enter rapture and the first jhana. So where do any counter or learning sign come in. Is that only for certain meditations

Can you tell me why Buddha used to go in different levels of absorption/ jhāna/musing even after nirvana for reference Mahā Parinibbāna Sutta (DN 16) and An 3.63 venaga sutta?

There must be some reason, to use **vedayita** and not **vedana**. my intuition says that its not cessation of feeling. but cessation of feeling object. what do you say ? From DPD digital pali dictionary: vedayita nt. which is felt; felt experience; feeling; lit. felt [√vid + *aya + ita] ✓ vedanā 1 fem. (pleasant, unpleasant or neutral) felt experience; feeling; sensation; second of the five aggregates; lit. causing to know [√vid + *anā] ✓