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What is the Chronology of the Feast of Holy Innocents vis a vis the Visit of the Magi as per the events in the Gospels?
On 28th December the church commemorates the Sacrifice of the Holy Innocents As per Matthew 2:16 > When Herod realized that he had been outwitted by the Magi, he was > furious, and he gave orders to kill all the boys in Bethlehem and its > vicinity who were two years old and under, in accordance wit...
On 28th December the church commemorates the Sacrifice of the Holy Innocents
As per Matthew 2:16
> When Herod realized that he had been outwitted by the Magi, he was
> furious, and he gave orders to kill all the boys in Bethlehem and its
> vicinity who were two years old and under, in accordance with the time
> he had learned from the Magi.
However we celebrate the Feast of the 3 Kings on January 6th - which means by the date of Dec 28th Herod would not have known the Magi were not going to return to inform him the location of the baby Jesus.
1. What is the chronology of these two events - is it a fair assumption that the Visit took place prior to the massacre ?
2. Is there an explanation as to why these events are commemorated by the Church in a different order ?
JoseK
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Jan 2, 2023, 06:26 AM
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Why did God allowed Herod to slay so many newborns?
Why didn't God strike Herod with Leprosy before he could to any harm to the newborns? He could prevent the death of many newborns and Joseph wouldn't have been forced to run to Egypt with Mary and baby Jesus. Matthew 2:16: >When Herod realized that he had been outwitted by the Magi, he was furious,...
Why didn't God strike Herod with Leprosy before he could to any harm to the newborns? He could prevent the death of many newborns and Joseph wouldn't have been forced to run to Egypt with Mary and baby Jesus.
Matthew 2:16:
>When Herod realized that he had been outwitted by the Magi, he was furious, and he gave orders to kill all the boys in Bethlehem and its vicinity who were two years old and under, in accordance with the time he had learned from the Magi.
In Matthew 2:18 it says that this needs to happen to fulfill the prophecy of Jeremiah:
>A voice is heard in Ramah, weeping and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children and refusing to be comforted, because they are no more.
But why?
MikeyJY
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Dec 30, 2022, 06:44 AM
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Feast of the Holy Innocents traditions?
Outside the Sacrifice of the Mass and the use of the Roman Ritual, are there any Catholic historical traditions that are have been or are in use amongst the Catholic faithful for the feast of the [Holy Innocents][1] (December 28), either within religious communities or the domestic church? [1]: http...
Outside the Sacrifice of the Mass and the use of the Roman Ritual, are there any Catholic historical traditions that are have been or are in use amongst the Catholic faithful for the feast of the Holy Innocents (December 28), either within religious communities or the domestic church?
Ken Graham
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Dec 27, 2016, 02:23 PM
• Last activity: Dec 31, 2022, 03:23 AM
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Historical evidence of Slaughter of the Innocents besides St. Matthew's Gospel?
Besides [Matthew 2:16][1], >Herod perceiving that he was deluded by the wise men, was exceeding angry: and sending killed all the menchildren that were in Bethlehem, and in all the borders thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently inquired of the wise men....
Besides Matthew 2:16 ,
>Herod perceiving that he was deluded by the wise men, was exceeding angry: and sending killed all the menchildren that were in Bethlehem, and in all the borders thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently inquired of the wise men.
What historical evidence is there of the Slaughter of the Innocents?
Geremia
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Mar 20, 2020, 09:34 PM
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When was it established that there were 14,000 innocents martyred?
In the Orthodox Church tradition, as I understand it, the Feast of the 14,000 Martyrs commemorates the deaths of the children massacred by Herod in what is otherwise known as the 'Massacre of the Innocents'. (Matt 2:16-18). Scholars have argued that the number was likely to have been in the 10s or l...
In the Orthodox Church tradition, as I understand it, the Feast of the 14,000 Martyrs commemorates the deaths of the children massacred by Herod in what is otherwise known as the 'Massacre of the Innocents'. (Matt 2:16-18).
Scholars have argued that the number was likely to have been in the 10s or low 100s. Where did the figure of 14,000 first come from? Why that number in particular?
UPDATE
At Warren's request in the comment below, here are some sources:
The Catholic Encyclopedia cites 3 figures: 64k in the Syriac tradition, 144k in the medieval tradition, based on Apocalypse 14:3 and 14k in the Greek tradition.
It's not beyond the bounds of probability that somewhere along the way 144k was reduced to 14k due to either scribal error or conservative judgement. It would be nice to trace the sources involved to check this theory out.
As far as the lower numbers go, there are some secondary sources quoted here and in this paper by Mans . The latter mentions an early low count given by Basil of Seleucia, but neither provide an answer to my question.
Mans notes the mention of a mass grave, and it seems there was a skeleton of one of the holy innocents included in Frederick the Wise's collection of relics.
I'm afraid these sources do more to widen the scope of the question than to narrow it.
Leon Conrad
(511 rep)
Mar 6, 2014, 03:55 PM
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