According to the suttas in SN13 , a stream enterer (or stream winner or sotapanna ) only has at most, seven remaining lifetimes, before they are permanently freed from suffering. On the other hand, takers of the Mahayana Bodhisattva vow , would forego enlightenment for a very long time (apparently aeons), till they complete the full Bodhisattva training (which I presume is the development of paramitas and the attainment of bhumis ). However, this implies that they need to avoid stream entry, which could cause them to become released from suffering in seven lifetimes at most. So, how do they avoid stream entry? Do they avoid it by avoiding the practice of insight meditation (vipassana ) perhaps?

What does a Buddhist practitioner, based on the 8 fold path, and deepening practice contemplate to become a sotāpanna (a stream-enterer)?

When a person becomes a stream enterer/Sotapanna, I understand they no longer have the first 3 fetters of belief in a self, doubts about the Buddha, his teachings or the noble sangha, or attachments to rites and rituals. But what's not clear to me is the mechanics of it. Does a person have a glimpse of Nibbana in a moment of true mindfulness and the three fetters drop away? Or does a person work at eradicating the first 3 fetters and if successful have a taste of Nibbana? Or can it happen either way?

I'm asking this question based on this comment and this question . It is well known that the goal of Buddhism is to end suffering. However, it is popularly mistaken (as seen in the cited comment and question) that Buddhists have to rush towards destroying their sense of self, skipping over the balanced wholistic practice of the Noble Eightfold Path . I think this is not correct. The ten fetters have the eradication of the identity-view or belief in a self (sakkāya-diṭṭhi) as a lower fetter, that has to be done in order to become a sotapanna or stream winner. However, a stream winner, has still not yet eradicated the fetters of sensual desire, ill will, material-existence-desire, immaterial-existence-desire, conceit and ignorance. I take it that total eradication of the sense of self happens with the eradication of the higher fetters, especially ignorance (avijja). After all, if the sense of self has been totally eradicated by the stream winner, it does not make sense that he could still have conceit, right? So, my question here is, if eradication of the lower fetter of identity-view or belief in a self (sakkāya-diṭṭhi) is not the complete eradication of a self, then what is it really? Is it an intellectual understanding of not-self? Or is it more? Is it an opinion? Is it a belief? Is it an experience? **How is the eradication of the lower fetter of identity view different from total eradication of the sense of self?**

- What fetters must be destroyed in order to reach the state of stream entry? - Is it possible to reach the state of stream entry in this very life? - Do I need to renounce worldly life in order to reach stream entry? - Can I keep functioning in society by earning bread, and paying my EMI and still reach stream entry? - How will I know that I have reached stream entry once I am there? - Is there a list of instructions that, once followed, will surely take me to the state of stream entry? Are there any finer details that I need to be aware of start on the journey towards stream entry? I have been a Buddhist learner since almost a decade, I frequently visit the Buddhist monastery close by, worship the relics of the Buddha, profess my desire to cultivate mindfulness. I am asking the above questions as I have no clue on how to start the journey, how to sustain and how to share the same with my loved ones so that they too can enjoy the fruit and bliss?

If someone enters the stream and becomes a sotapanna (stream winner), then he would have at most, seven lifetimes left. What the stream is, is defined in this answer as: > This noble eightfold path — right view, right resolve, right speech, > right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right > concentration — is the stream. (SN 55.5) Thanissaro Bhikku further comments here that: > The coming-together of these factors is called the stream because it > leads inevitably to two things, just as the current of a tributary > will lead inevitably to a major river and then to the sea. In the > immediate present, the stream leads directly to the arising of the > Dhamma eye, the vision that actually constitutes this first awakening. > Over time, the stream ensures that — in no more than seven lifetimes — > one will be totally unbound. The Dhamma eye is explained as the ability to see firsthand and experientially, the impermanence of the five aggregates and dependent origination. My questions are (for rebirths as a human): 1. How does a reborn stream-winner know that he or she is one? 2. Does being a stream-winner in a previous lifetime, mean that one would be reborn into a devout Buddhist family in this lifetime or would definitely be led to the Dhamma eventually? 3. Is the reborn stream-winner's Dhamma eye open immediately at birth, or only after he or she encounters the Dhamma and returns back to the Noble Eightfold Path? 4. How is it guaranteed that the reborn stream-winner would not choose another path or another teacher, and drop out of the stream, considering that we do not remember previous lifetimes? 5. Please provide any info from the canon regarding this.

Stream entry feels like a milestone where some very significant things happen and the practitioner cannot slide backwards from it. Do Zen sutras describe the concept of stream entry by that or any other name?

I quoted below, the words of Ven. Dhammavuddho, who stated that, according to SN 55.5, to attain stream entry, one must have focused attention (yoniso manasikara) when listening to the true Dhamma from true men (ariyans) and contemplating on it. After that, they must practise the Dhamma in accordance with the Dhamma. They can have focused attention, only if the five hindrances stop habitually obsessing their minds. Two types of persons pass this criteria - one who has attained the first jhana and one who is highly intelligent (has high IQ). Both can concentrate their minds effectively. My questions are: - Is the role of IQ as stated above, found in the suttas? (reference request) - How could not-so-intelligent persons compensate for their lack of IQ, if they want to understand the Dhamma and attain stream entry? In the YouTube video entitled "Characteristics of a Sotapanna ", Ven. Dhammavuddho Mahathera stated (with some paraphrasing): > Now we look at another Sutta - SN 55.5 . ... It is mentioned that there are > four factors or conditions for stream entry - sotapattiyangani. First, > association with true men - sappurisa. Second, hearing the true > Dhamma (Saddhamma). Third, focused attention or proper attention (yoniso manasikara). And fourth, > practice of the Dhamma in accordance with the Dhamma - > Dhammanudhammapatipatti. > > The first one is association with true men. The word sappurisa also > means ariyans - those who understand the true Dhamma. Because they > understand the true Dhamma, you can hear the true Dhamma from them. > > The second condition - What is the true Dhamma? ... if it agrees with > the Buddha's words in the Suttas, then it is the true Dhamma. .... > > The third condition, this word - yoniso manasikara, which I translate > as focused attention. Sometimes they say careful attention. This word > means that when you listen to the Dhamma, you are focused on listening > to the Dhamma. In other words, at that time, you don't have the five > hindrances. If that is so, then you can understand the Dhamma and > attain stream entry. > > So who are the people who do not have the five hindrances? In the > suttas, it is stated by the Buddha that as long as a person has not > attained piti and sukha which are secluded from unwholesome states, > which are secluded from sensual pleasures, the five hindrances will > obsess him and obsess him habitually. > > So, there are two types of persons who do not have the five > hindrances. The first is the one who has attained the first jhana > (i.e. he who has attained piti and sukha). When a person has attained > the first jhana, he has eliminated the five hindrances and the Buddha > says that the five hindrances no longer obsess that person habitually. > > So there are two conditions if a person has the hindrances. Firstly, > it obsesses your mind, it enslaves your mind. Secondly, it is > habitual, it is very often there. ... When a person attains the first > jhana, these hindrances reduce to a very low level. ... > > **The other type of person who does not have the five hindrances habitually obsessing his mind is an intelligent person - the person > with a high IQ. Normally, a person born with a high IQ, he has good > concentration and that was obtained from previous lives.** A very good > example is Albert Einstein. ... (some example of Albert Einstein) ... > It shows that he had great concentration. So, people who are > intelligent, they are able to focus their mind. That is very > important. A scatter-brained person cannot be an intelligent person - > the mind is so scattered. > > These are the two types of persons. One, because of previous lives, > he's born very intelligent - he can focus his mind. The second person > is one who has attained the jhanas. > > The fourth condition - practice of the Dhamma in accordance with the > Dhamma. So he keeps practising the Dhamma and he will attain stream > entry. Now this fourth condition may not be necessary for some people. > We find in the suttas - many people when they listen to the Buddha, > speaking the Dhamma, even for the first time, they attain stream > entry. The Buddha confirms this. But some people after they have > listened, it doesn't click immediately. They go back and they think > about it and then it clicks. And then they understand the Dhamma and > attain stream entry. > > So this practice of the Dhamma in accordance with the Dhamma is after > he has listened, he starts to recall the Dhamma or investigate more of > the Dhamma. And then after some time, then the pieces fall into place > like a jigsaw puzzle. And then he sees the Dhamma.

How do I become a Saddhanussari or Dhammanussari and how do I know if I have attained it? I think that the question above is clear enough. Just to add I have read their descriptions in the Suttas but from them, the answer to these questions are still unclear. He describes them as such: MN 70 > And what person is a **follower of the teachings** (**dhammanussari**)? It’s a person who > doesn’t have direct meditative experience of the peaceful liberations > that are formless, transcending form. Nevertheless, having seen with > wisdom, some of their defilements have come to an end. And they accept > the teachings proclaimed by the Realized One after considering them > with a degree of wisdom. And they have the following qualities: the > faculties of faith, energy, mindfulness, immersion, and wisdom. This > person is called a follower of the teachings. I say that this > mendicant also still has work to do with diligence. Why is that? > Thinking: ‘Hopefully this venerable will frequent appropriate > lodgings, associate with good friends, and control their faculties. > Then they might realize the supreme culmination of the spiritual path > in this very life, and live having achieved with their own insight the > goal for which gentlemen rightly go forth from the lay life to > homelessness.’ Seeing this fruit of diligence for this mendicant, I > say that they still have work to do with diligence. > >And what person is > a **follower by faith** (**saddhanussari**)? It’s a person who doesn’t have direct meditative > experience of the peaceful liberations that are formless, transcending > form. Nevertheless, having seen with wisdom, some of their defilements > have come to an end. And they have a degree of faith and love for the > Realized One. And they have the following qualities: the faculties of > faith, energy, mindfulness, immersion, and wisdom. This person is > called a follower by faith. I say that this mendicant also still has > work to do with diligence. Why is that? Thinking: ‘Hopefully this > venerable will frequent appropriate lodgings, associate with good > friends, and control their faculties. Then they might realize the > supreme culmination of the spiritual path in this very life, and live > having achieved with their own insight the goal for which gentlemen > rightly go forth from the lay life to homelessness.’ Seeing this fruit > of diligence for this mendicant, I say that they still have work to do > with diligence. How does one 'accept the teachings proclaimed by the Realized One after considering them with a degree of wisdom.'? Or 'have a degree of faith and love for the Realized One'? And how does one know that one has fulfilled this?

How is the fetter "Identity View" destroyed by confidence in the triple-gem and ethics ([\[DN 16, see "Dhamma-Mirror"\]][3] )? The concept of identity view also seems to be a bit fuzzy. In [\[SN 55.21\]][1] the stream entrant Mahanamo wonders about his future abodes. I assume that Mahanamo was familiar with the term Sotapanna and its implications. The buddha assures him that by his ripened confidence in the triple gem and his steadfast ethics, he is saved. I make the following conclusions: 1. "I am worried about **my future births**" does not imply identity view. 2. If I doubt my attainment of SE, I do not disprove my attainment. Point 2 is mentioned, because often I see the argument "you worry about sotapanna, then you are not sotapanna due to identity view". By the above reasoning, I know that identity view must be something else, as it seems to tolerate some thoughts about **myself**. I also conclude that there are two sufficient conditions for stream entry: 3. No self view, no skeptical doubt and no clinging to rites and rituals implies Sotapanna[ \[MN 25\]][2] . 4. Confidence in the triple gem and good ethics implies Sotapanna,[ \[DN 16, see "Dhamma-Mirror"\]][3] . If point 4 describes the "conviction follower", then Thanissaro Bikkhu disagrees about 4, saying > [...] conviction-followers are apparently those who are following the path > to stream-entry but have yet to reach the fruit of stream-entry. This leaves only point 3 as possibility to stream entry and contradicts the Dhamma Mirror, given by the Buddha.

When researching stream-entry, I came across this fascinating statement ... > "The stream enterer ... has removed the saṅkhāras that force rebirth > in lower planes". SOURCE: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_stages_of_awakening#Stream-enterer I find this statement to be fascinating because the 4 stages of enlightenment are usually described as a function of "abandoning fetters (samyojanas)" rather than "removal of saṅkhāras". Does this statement have any reference in the suttas? i.e. Do the suttas actually make this connection between "removing saṅkhāras" and freedom from "rebirth in lower planes"? If so, do they hint at the nature of the "saṅkhāras" to be removed?

There was an incident in the 50s, a monk named [Ñāṇavīra Thera](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanavira_Thera) commited suicide, he was believed to be a stream enterer and was suffering from amoebiasis. So I'm curious to know, if someone knows for sure that he's become a stream enterer (or beyond) and doesn't desire to live anymore, can he decide to commit suicide?

I've heard stream entry described as a turning about in the deepest seat of consciousness. I've also read other accounts that make me think that there is something about the experience that is unmistakable. Is that true? If one were to attain stream entry would one know it without doubt. Is it such a notable experience that it couldn't be mistaken for anything else?

The following sutta quote shows the reflection that would cause the diminishing or abandonment of misconduct. However, this appears to be a method of skillful means for reflection by someone with self-view. A stream enterer would have discarded self-view (*sakkāya-diṭṭhi*), which is the first of the ten fetters . Therefore, would a stream enterer also automatically abandon the following skillful reflection or perhaps not need it anymore? From AN 5.57 : > “And for the sake of what benefit should a woman or a man, a > householder or one gone forth, often reflect thus: ‘I am the owner of > my kamma, the heir of my kamma; I have kamma as my origin, kamma as my > relative, kamma as my resort; I will be the heir of whatever kamma, > good or bad, that I do’? People engage in misconduct by body, speech, > and mind. But when one often reflects upon this theme, such misconduct > is either completely abandoned or diminished. It is for the sake of > this benefit that a woman or a man, a householder or one gone forth, > should often reflect thus: ‘I am the owner of my kamma, the heir of my > kamma; I have kamma as my origin, kamma as my relative, kamma as my > resort; I will be the heir of whatever kamma, good or bad, that I do.’

Sheng-yen was an important Taiwanese Buddhist, with I believe Rinzai and Soto tranmission. **When describing the Buddhist path, he says that the 10 faiths are reached only after extensive success with koans, and adds that this is equivalent to stream entry. All very reasonable. However, I think it shows relative humility, compared to zen, about Theravada Buddhism.** I also believe that the formless realms are essential for advance to the 10 abodes in the Tientai model of the "complete" teaching. So I wondered: - when, according to Sheng-yen then, does the practitioner realize non-attachment within the formless realms? - and is the stage of dry wisdom - form the Surangama Sutra - the same as the 5 grades in Tientai?

I've quoted below from Ratana Sutta (The Discourse on the Jewels). >Ye ariyasaccāni vibhāvayanti Gambhīrapaññena sudesitāni Kiñcāpi te honti bhusappamattā Na te bhavam atthamam ādiyanti Idam pi sanghe ratanam panītam Etena saccena suvatthi hotu ~ Cited from: Ratana Sutta (Pāli Text) which means; >Those who clearly distinguish the noble truths, which have been well preached by the one with great wisdom, no matter how great they become in heedlessness still they do not take up an eighth existence— this excellent treasure is in the Sangha: by virtue of this truth may there be safety! ~ Cited from: Ratana Sutta | The Discourse on the Treasures According to the above, stream-enterer will not have an eighth existence (re-appearing) no matter how great he/she become in heedlessness. Does it mean that a stream-enterer will become an Arahant within his/her next seven existences even without any effort? If so, why would someone put an extra effort to become an Arahant after becoming a stream-enterer?

Is it true that at stream-entry there is a profound decrease in the intensity of suffering perceived in samsara? If I'm not wrong, the Buddha does use the metaphor of a small clod of earth, as tiny as that can be picked up on a fingernail, to portray the amount of suffering one perceives after stream-entry, compared to the intense suffering, equivalent to the whole of earth, that a worldling feels in samsara?

Venerable sir, Lately I have been wondering if there is a proper technique that can be used in order to attain stream entry rather than meditating. I have a few experiences with loving kindness meditation though it did not go very well. Actually, I am not good at meditating therefore it is hard for me to walk in the path. It might be easier if there is a proper technique to follow instead of meditating. Also even though I am in a Buddhist country it is not very popular among the Buddhist to meditate here, so if there is a technique please let me know. Thank you

I have often wondered about one particular riddle regarding the stages of the path. If Sakkāyadiṭṭhi, a view of the self, is one of the first fetters conquered at stream- entry, why is it that Māna, that is a consequence of subtle ‘I-am-ness’, is one of the last to go at Arahanthood? In what form does the ‘I’ sustain itself till the last?

The second fetter to break when one becomes a stream entrant is given as 'Clinging to rites and rituals'. I've always found that one a little puzzling. How do you know if you are clinging to a ritual? What would be the signs of it? Does the fetter apply exclusively to Buddhist rituals or does it apply to the little rituals we all indulge in as we navigate our way through daily life? I think I'm after someone to help unpack this one a little bit.