Buddhism
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What does the Buddha mean about women in sutta AN 5.230?
Is this Aṅguttara Nikāya (AN 5.230)sutta true? Is it translated to English from the Pali correctly? >AN 5.230 Numbered Discourses 5.230 >23. Long Wandering Black Snakes (2nd) “Mendicants, there are these five drawbacks of a black snake. What five? It’s irritable, acrimonious, venomous, fork-tongued,...
Is this Aṅguttara Nikāya (AN 5.230)sutta true? Is it translated to English from the Pali correctly?
>AN 5.230
Numbered Discourses 5.230
>23. Long Wandering
Black Snakes (2nd)
“Mendicants, there are these five drawbacks of a black snake. What five? It’s irritable, acrimonious, venomous, fork-tongued, and treacherous. These are the five dangers of a black snake.
>In the same way there are five drawbacks of a lady. What five? She’s irritable, acrimonious, venomous, fork-tongued, and treacherous. This is a lady’s venom: usually she’s very lustful. This is a lady’s forked tongue: usually she speaks divisively. This is a lady’s treachery: usually she’s an adulteress. These are the five drawbacks of a lady.”
https://suttacentral.net/an5.230/en/sujato?lang=en&layout=plain&reference=none¬es=asterisk&highlight=false&script=latin
Ajahn Sujato says it's just wrong, but I wonder if its mistranslated. Are there any other suttas where the Buddha appears to believe things that seem to be born of kilesa. Do any Buddhists believe this sutta? How old is this sutta? I am thinking that that it must be a bad teaching that maybe some monk with too much kilesa slipped in there?
>Ajahn Sujato: "And no, I don’t think this was really spoken by the Buddha. Deal with it.
What I’m interested in is to subject this text to the same elementary standard that the Buddha himself insisted on, and that we would apply to any other truth claims: does it stack up against the evidence? I assume it doesn’t, but I’d like to see the proof. Does anyone know of any objective, empirically based psychological studies that statistically examine possible gender differences between men and women in these traits?"...
https://sujato.wordpress.com/2010/12/05/is-this-sutta-true/
Unless I am just too unenlightened to understand, that sutta doesn't sound like the Buddha I follow. Is it in the context of meditation against sensual desire? Does this damage the reputation of the Buddha? Does the Buddha have to be completely perfect within our unenlightened understanding? That sutta seems impossible though. The Buddha did ordain Bhikkhunis so I was thinking this sutta must be a fraud, right?
Lowbrow
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Feb 13, 2026, 09:11 AM
• Last activity: Feb 15, 2026, 10:51 AM
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Textural reference(s) for Bhadda Kapilani, a practitioner who for many lifetimes made the aspiration to be reborn as a woman?
I just read '. . . Bhadda Kapilani, a practitioner who for many lifetimes made the aspiration to be reborn as a woman.' What are the textural references for this?
I just read '. . . Bhadda Kapilani, a practitioner who for many lifetimes made the aspiration to be reborn as a woman.' What are the textural references for this?
vimutti
(572 rep)
Feb 20, 2024, 08:15 PM
• Last activity: Feb 21, 2024, 01:16 PM
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10
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In today's perspective is it possible to practice mindful meditation except bhikkhus?
Mindfulness: the Vipassana Meditation is a great methodology to reduce suffering, avoid attachments and gain pure happiness. **But** in present education, competition, living needs, relationships, responsibilities, duties etc too much are mandatorily attached to a single person. So is it really prac...
Mindfulness: the Vipassana Meditation is a great methodology to reduce suffering, avoid attachments and gain pure happiness. **But** in present education, competition, living needs, relationships, responsibilities, duties etc too much are mandatorily attached to a single person. So is it really practical to practice this except bhikkhus?
user7658
Jan 14, 2017, 06:37 PM
• Last activity: Aug 29, 2023, 11:54 PM
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5
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Why was Lord Buddha reluctant to ordain females as Bhikkuni initially?
I have learnt that Lord Buddha was initially reluctant to ordain females but after a lot of convincing by his step mother Buddha started ordaining females. Why was he initially reluctant? If not for his step mother would there even have been a chance for Buddha to ordain women?
I have learnt that Lord Buddha was initially reluctant to ordain females but after a lot of convincing by his step mother Buddha started ordaining females. Why was he initially reluctant? If not for his step mother would there even have been a chance for Buddha to ordain women?
Heisenberg
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Feb 15, 2016, 08:25 AM
• Last activity: Jul 21, 2021, 09:12 AM
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4
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When were women first welcomed into Buddhist orders?
I know that in the early days of Buddhism, it was for men only. To practice, you had to be a monk, and to be a monk, you had to be a man. Perhaps this reflects the attitudes of the time, but today, my experience of Buddhism has been as something that welcomes men and women equally, even when that's...
I know that in the early days of Buddhism, it was for men only. To practice, you had to be a monk, and to be a monk, you had to be a man. Perhaps this reflects the attitudes of the time, but today, my experience of Buddhism has been as something that welcomes men and women equally, even when that's still in a segregated way.
Historically, when did this change come about, and what first triggered it?
Dan Hulme
(475 rep)
Jun 17, 2014, 08:07 PM
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2
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How do monks live with medical conditions that require regular meals?
Theravada monks are supposed to eat only one or two meals per day, only between dawn and noon. For the rest of the day, they can drink water or fruit juices. The exception to this rule is if they are temporarily ill. But what about monks who have [Gastroesophageal Reflux Disease (GERD)][1] or other...
Theravada monks are supposed to eat only one or two meals per day, only between dawn and noon. For the rest of the day, they can drink water or fruit juices. The exception to this rule is if they are temporarily ill.
But what about monks who have Gastroesophageal Reflux Disease (GERD) or other chronic diseases, who may need to eat regularly every 4 hours or so, till usual dinner time?
Furthermore, people with GERD may not be able to consume acidic drinks (e.g. citrus fruit juices and tomato juice), especially on an empty stomach.
Also, consider that according to this article , up to 28% of Americans and up to 26% of Europeans, may be suffering from GERD. So, theoretically, this could affect 1 out of 4 monks.
How do they cope with this condition? Are they permanently exempted from this rule?
ruben2020
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Jul 24, 2019, 03:11 PM
• Last activity: Feb 16, 2020, 05:52 AM
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In which context did the Buddha say this, about ordaining women?
A quote: > " in whatever religion women are ordained, that religion will not last long. As families that have more women than men are easily destroyed by robbers, as a plentiful rice-field once infested by rice worms will not long remain, as a sugarcane field invaded by red rust will not long remain...
A quote:
> " in whatever religion women are ordained, that religion will not last long. As families that have more women than men are easily destroyed by robbers, as a plentiful rice-field once infested by rice worms will not long remain, as a sugarcane field invaded by red rust will not long remain, even so the True Dharma will not last long."
In which context did the Buddha say this?
Daniel C
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Jun 9, 2018, 11:32 PM
• Last activity: Jun 10, 2018, 04:31 PM
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4
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The first rule of 8 Garudhammas
So according to the 8 Garudhammas of Bhikkunis this is the first one. > 1) A nun who has been ordained even for a hundred years must greet respectfully, rise up from her seat, salute with joined palms, do proper homage to a monk ordained but that day. For me this sort of pushes the males to superior...
So according to the 8 Garudhammas of Bhikkunis this is the first one.
> 1) A nun who has been ordained even for a hundred years must greet respectfully, rise up from her seat, salute with joined palms, do proper homage to a monk ordained but that day.
For me this sort of pushes the males to superiority. What is the reason for this? Is it accurate? Where can I find a reference to it in the Vinaya Pitakaya?
Akila Hettiarachchi
(1233 rep)
Jan 13, 2017, 06:49 PM
• Last activity: Aug 19, 2017, 12:35 PM
10
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6
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Why the Buddha didn't originally allow ordination of women
Is it true that the Buddha didn't allow women in the Sangha? If this is true then why is that?
Is it true that the Buddha didn't allow women in the Sangha? If this is true then why is that?
user5380
(866 rep)
Jun 30, 2015, 08:42 AM
• Last activity: Apr 8, 2016, 08:02 AM
5
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2
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Why do Bhikkhunis have so many extra Vinaya rules?
The Vinaya contains 227 rules for male monks and 311 rules for female monks. Is it known why so many additional rules were put in place for Bhikkhunis?
The Vinaya contains 227 rules for male monks and 311 rules for female monks. Is it known why so many additional rules were put in place for Bhikkhunis?
user143
Oct 18, 2014, 03:00 PM
• Last activity: Nov 3, 2015, 02:06 AM
3
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2
answers
523
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Nuns and ordination
I see that in some theravdan traditions woman cannot fully ordain (some thai traditions). But in some burmese and tibetan traditions they can. From what I understand it is because of the break in lineage but how do these other traditions justify it?
I see that in some theravdan traditions woman cannot fully ordain (some thai traditions). But in some burmese and tibetan traditions they can. From what I understand it is because of the break in lineage but how do these other traditions justify it?
MFS
(551 rep)
Sep 7, 2014, 11:30 PM
• Last activity: Nov 3, 2015, 02:04 AM
3
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2
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94
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Did nuns participate in the councils?
Are there any records of this? Though I'm more curious about the first council, I'm generally curious about their participation in any of them.
Are there any records of this? Though I'm more curious about the first council, I'm generally curious about their participation in any of them.
user382
Jun 13, 2015, 11:19 PM
• Last activity: Jun 14, 2015, 07:27 AM
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