Is Udana 8.3 Affirming the Existence of A Transcendent Theistic God in Buddhism?
0
votes
3
answers
69
views
In Udana 8.3 , The following passage is to be seen-
> There is, monks, an unborn, unbecome, unmade, unconditioned. If, monks
> there were not that unborn, unbecome, unmade, unconditioned, you could
> not know an escape here from the born, become, made, and conditioned.
> But because there is an unborn, unbecome, unmade, unconditioned,
> therefore you do know an escape from the born, become, made, and
> conditioned.
I have seen many individuals on the internet quote this passage from the sutta to state Buddha directly affirmed the existence of A Theistic God.
For Instance, A Non-dual, Vedanta Leaning Blogger Claims here -
> **A closer reading of the Buddhist texts reveals that the Buddha did
> actually acknowledge in many places the existence of what in Vedanta
> would be called ‘The Self’ (Sanskrit: Atman) and what others may even
> call God. Here is just one example from the Nibbana Sutta verse 3
> (Udana 8.3), which is from the Pali Canon:**
>
> There is, bhikkhus [monks], that which is unborn, that which is
> unmanifest [or has not come into being], that which is not
> fabricated/created, that which is unconditioned.
>
> If there were not, bhikhus, that which is unborn, that which is
> unmanifest, that which is not fabricated/created, that which is
> unconditioned, there would not be escape from that which is born, from
> that which is manifest, from that which is fabricated/created, from
> that which is conditioned – that therefore would not have been clearly
> known/experienced/seen.
>
> But because, bhikhus, there is indeed that which is unborn, that which
> is unmanifest, that which is not fabricated/created, that which is
> unconditioned, therefore escape from that which is born, from that
> which is manifest, from that which is fabricated, from that which is
> conditioned, is [or can be] clearly known/experienced/seen.
>
> **We can clearly see that the Buddha is categorically stating that there
> is something that is beyond birth and creation, beyond manifestation
> and that which is conditioned (ie. all objects).**
Similiarly A Baha’i writer uses Ud 8.3 to argue Buddhism implies a transcendent God behind liberation here
> **The understanding that God chooses us echoes throughout every
> religion. In Judaism, it is God who carries His people on eagles’
> wings and brings them to Himself (Exodus 19:4). In Christianity, it is
> God, who with His amazing grace, “saves a wretch like me.” In Islam it
> is God who brings us out from the depths of darkness into light: and
> it is He who is full of mercy to those who believe (Qur’an 33:43). In
> Hinduism, the greatest proponent of Vaishnavism to the West in my
> lifetime, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami wrote: “We can only understand
> Krsna by acquiring the grace of Krsna,” and in Buddhism, it is very
> clear that God, the “unborn, unarisen, and unconditioned” is the One
> who frees us, for as Buddhist scripture says:**
>
> Were there not an unborn, unarisen, and unconditioned, there would be
> no escape for those born, arisen and conditioned. Because there is
> the unborn, unarisen, unconditioned, there is escape for those born,
> arisen, and conditioned. – Udana, 8.3.
>
> **Salvation is not something we achieve on our own; it is given to be
> achieved.**
Is there any merit to these claims? Is this Sutta really implying the existence of an Unborn Theistic God, Without whose grace we cannot attain liberation?
Asked by MAITREYA
(1 rep)
Aug 14, 2025, 05:17 PM
Last activity: Aug 16, 2025, 07:47 AM
Last activity: Aug 16, 2025, 07:47 AM